Shelly Mujtaba wrote:

> the truth of this whole matter is none...what will eventually pay off is
> your application modeling skills. If you can take a problem and model an
> elegant solution for it ...any language will do. I have created
> applications in Java and then recreated them in smalltalk and c++ and what
> really helped was not my knowledge of the language but  understanding the
> model. but then  if we are discussing career as a "coder" ...well...

Your idea is a nice one. It sounds great at least. "It is not the languagethat
matters but the design". It is hard to prove anything beyond that,
bacause you can always say the desing was the problem and not the
language.
OTOH, there are some designs that can be implemented in Java and C++.
Take for example the following design:
"I need a way to express lambda expressions so that I can make a graphic
with it, for example: y = x^2, and having those as variables in a program".

A Smalltalker would just use the compiler to evaluate the lambda expressions,
while the C++ programmer would have a 6 months job trying to achieve
the same.

Maybe you can say this example was not fare, because it turned out that most
of the implementation is already written in Smalltalk. Ok. I agree with you,
it was already coded in Smalltalk, so only an interface was needed.

Let us take another more real example:
"I want an object transport to transport objects in a network between
applications. Objects can be moved or copied depending on the object
itself, on the sender and on the receiver, and objects can be persistent or
transient".

A Smalltalker would think using TCP/IP (or another network protocol),
serializing the objects, and making the 2 protocols (move and copy) will
mean 2 days of work (if lazy) because everything is already done. Probably
what will really take time will be to make the design to make extensible
applications on the net, calculate how to redistribute objects in the final
app. etc.

But in C++ even serializing objects will mean a lot of work. Forget about
study how to redistribute objects.

Conclusion:
Which app. would need to be coded in C++ if Smalltalk already exists?
Why should someone bother with edit, compile, link, run, debug if it can be
done all on the fly?
Why would someone mess with a wanna be OOL if a OOL from the ground
up is available?
--
I use CAPS to emphasize, not to yell.
I take unpopular positions.
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