From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_05,FROM_ADDR_WS, INVALID_MSGID,REPLYTO_WITHOUT_TO_CC autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: fac41,d24e07f660698f1 X-Google-Attributes: gidfac41,public X-Google-Thread: f43e6,d24e07f660698f1 X-Google-Attributes: gidf43e6,public X-Google-Thread: 109fba,d24e07f660698f1 X-Google-Attributes: gid109fba,public X-Google-Thread: 103376,d24e07f660698f1 X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public From: Ian Nelson <"Ian Nelson"> Subject: Re: Eiffel anyone? - Who uses it? Date: 1997/07/12 Message-ID: <33C86141.2008@andrew.cmu.edu>#1/1 X-Deja-AN: 256546344 References: <33C61545.167EB0E7@tower.com> Organization: CMU/IBM Reply-To: in22@andrew.cmu.edu Newsgroups: comp.software-eng,comp.lang.eiffel,comp.lang.c++,comp.lang.ada Date: 1997-07-12T00:00:00+00:00 List-Id: ivory@tower.com wrote: > > My friend's son is looking at colleges, and was startled to see > that RIT appears to have a heavy focus on the language Eiffel for > the first 2-3 years. He's using this as a black mark against the > school. The thinking is that he'd rather be learning a 'real' > language that has real-life value on the job market. > > He's asked me for my opinion, and I'd have to say that I somewhat > agree. I've never met an Eiffel programer, and don't see a lot of > ads for them in the classifieds. Note: I'm not debating whether or > not Eiffel is a good language; that's not the concern. The concern > is whether or not the job market will see this as having been time > well spent. > > So, what's the (reality based) counter argument? > > [obviously, I seldom (ever) read each of the newsgroups I posted this > to, so please e-mail responses as well as re-post. thanks] > > John The reality based counter argument is that any programmer that claims to be a professional and is worth hiring will use what you tell him to and pick it up fairly quickly. Further, I have a fair amount of experience in Standard-ML, Prolog, and Lisp (SML programmers are in even less demand than Eiffel programmers) from CMU, and it has not hindered my ability for find work one bit. Generally, after you learn several different programming paradigms and their techniques, switching languages is like switching gears in a car (almost.) It never takes that long to dive into a new langauge and if you have a job that mandates it, then it is even easier because you have real motivation. The idea is to learn that languages are a small piece of the puzzle that can cause big problems if you have the wrong attitude. There is no 'best' language that can solve all of your problems but there most certainly are 'worst' languages that can make projects far tougher than they need to be. While C++ and Java look good on a resume, they are awful at some tasks. Having a wide range of experience with different tools makes you a better programmer, even if you aren't on the bleeding edge of the latest trend. It's also not really the job of the college (or at least most probably don't do what is considered a good job at it) to create a resume for the student. The student is there to learn principles and how to apply them, if the market is demanding java programmers over Eiffel then he should be motivated enough to learn it regardless of whether or not it is taught to him at college. O'Reilly books aren't that expensive. If it is real-world-job-finding-resume-fodder that he is interested in, 370asm and COBOL seem to be the hot job winners right now and I don't think that he'd have learned those at any college anywhere over the last few years.