From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,INVALID_MSGID autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 103376,71dcda1787f0bed5 X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public From: Arthur Schwarz Subject: Re: Success: Ada versus C Date: 1997/06/06 Message-ID: <33984686.9A8@gdls.com>#1/1 X-Deja-AN: 246585315 References: Organization: General Dynamics Land Systems Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Date: 1997-06-06T00:00:00+00:00 List-Id: RC wrote: > > > > Had Ada been around when C and Unix were developed, I'm sure it would > have had a better head start. Ada 'was' around when C started, tho' in another form. The immediate predecessor to Ada was Pascal. At the time that Pascal was introduced it was immediately hailed as an innovation over existing languages and was in general felt to be superior to it's competitors, Fortran and Cobol. During the beginning 80's, fast, cheap, and relatively good compilers for Pascal were available (ala Borland). Despite its deficiencies, it was gradually being expanded in capability, supplanted by other 'better' languages (Ada and Modula for two), and then it died. I've heard reasons why. I don't understand them. But it died as it appears that Ada might. > > Ada started as a large, expensive project funded by a large, well funded > end user. There has been little reason for suppliers to introduce Ada > as an inexpensive loss-leader. Cobol was started by DoD in the 60's. It is a widely successful language and I believ to this day, more software is written and available in Cobol than any other single computer languages. If I remember correctly, the Communications of the ACM (or SIGPLAN) published a survey of languages used sometime during the 80's. At that time (if memory serves me correctly - it really never does), Cobol programming exceeded 80% of all programming done. I believe that a survey done in the 90's showed that although it's lead was dropping, it still has a commanding lead. So go figure. Ada lookalike languages die (Pascal) and DoD / Gov'n funded projects don't. This is to say that it appears that for any valid example there is an equally valid counter-example, and vice- versa. I don't mean to poke fun at you but I can't understand it either. I do know that from a 'rabid supporter' for Ada in the 80's, I'm only lukewarm now. I do find learning the language tortuous and compiling, linking a real burden. For 'simple' projects it is seems undually complex. For long-term, large scale projects I believe the Ada advocates, it is good. But very often, small inconsequential projects done within a larger framework become major future efforts. Maybe this is where Ada fails to have a 'draw'. Being geared to projects which start large and continue, it is not able to attract projects which start small and grow. I don't know, when I read the Ada news- groups I see a lot of stridency for a viewpoint without many concessions for success. So I personally don't see a large future for the language. As a non-sequitor, when I tried to learn rather than just admire the language (in the 80's) I had a great deal of difficulty. Being an experienced (and arrogant) programmer, I really didn't want a tutorial and didn't want to spend time with the LRM. I couldn't find books which were not tutorial and I did find that the LRM was all but impenetrable. In terms of C (now, not then), I use a book by Harbison and Steele, "C, A Reference Manual". For me it is an unqualified success. To this day I don't know of a comparable book in Ada. My feeling is that it is time to stop congratulating ourselves. It is time to develop an appreciation for our potential audience. The language won't sell itself and strong advocacy is not the same as many and enthusiastic user's. The articles that I see telling about Ada's successes and its future seem to be a cry of desparation. "Why can't people see the superiority of Ada over C/C++?". Good question. What's the answer. So go figure. One of the best languages of the times seems destined for a footnote in history - used by the Government, abandoned by the people. (sorry for the speach). art schwarz aschwarz@acm.org