Re: We need a moderated comp.lang.eiffel

Re: We need a moderated comp.lang.eiffel

[Bertrand Meyer]

This is a posting with no technical content, and as much a waste
of the writer's time as it is of the reader's. Unfortunately
it appears necessary.
 
Although Bruce Mount's original only went to comp.lang.eiffel
I am cross-posting this to some of the other groups on which
some of the recent heap of insults was posted.

Bruce Mount wrote (in response to a message that I haven't seen
yet, so I don't know who "Dominique" is):
 
> Dominique:
> 
> >>I really think that we need a moderated Eiffel newsgroup in
> >>addition of comp.lang.eiffel (it becomes more and more
> >>difficult to work with comp.lang.eiffel).
> 
> Although I agree that comp.lang.eiffel has been full of noise lately I
> still feel that it is better targeted than most newsgroups.

Yes.
 
> If we have a moderated c.l.e then I will just end up reading both
> newsgroups and I doubt it would really save me time at that point.
> 
> Nevertheless, my feeling on this issue are not cast in stone

Same here, for both comments.

> and I am open to debate on the subject.

Yes but let's be careful. If we open the floodgates we give the crazies
(or the crazy, there is no evidence of more than one) what they
are trying to achieve: the destruction of comp.lang.eiffel and other
technical newsgroups by a deluge of meta-level discussions. 

> I am greatly saddened by the juvenile personal attacks by the fake Kibo,
> but those as best dealt with by slander lawsuits and complaints to their
> ISP.

This is the point. There have been some strong arguments recently, with
people shouting, in my opinion, too angrily (especially on issues for
which, the disagreement, if you look beyond the rhetoric, was not
that big). Personally I have been called "ridiculous" and incompetent
a few times. It's not too pleasant but  it's probably part of life
when you hold strong opinions and do not hesitate to defend them.
However the "Kibo" thing is another matter.

I regret to have to use Usenet bandwidth to comment on it - and I hope
that others will show some moderation, again because if we don't we give
the guy exactly what he wants: the destruction of perfectly sound
technical newsgroups. However I think that I must say something here
because I am the one who has been most rudely and libelously insulted,
together with my company, its products and my technical achievements.
Other people viciously attacked by the same person (apparently -
he courageously uses an anonymous account,so we can't know for sure)
include Robert Dewar and Grady Booch. (As part of his viciousness
the guy also has a particular propensity to include obscene comments on
people's wives.) That it is an honor to share
the spotlight with such prestigious and respected computer
scientists is meagre consolation.

This goes with a Web page - resurfacing after it was removed a few
months ago following public outrage - that characterizes in the
most insulting terms a number of
people, apparently chosen only because they occasionally express
technical opinions on Usenet. The focus is particularly on
sexual insults and antisemitism, with characterizations of people
as "that fat Jewish boy", "an insult to the Hebrew race"
and the like. And there is an Internet provider who apparently
finds it quite all right to host such hate mongering. Have people
not learned anything? Do they need a refresher in 20-th century
history?

One reaction - essentially everyone's so far - is (as suggested
by Jeffrey Stulin a week or so ago) to ignore the poor guy. Let him
drown in his own bile. However this may not in the end be the right
policy. Although no one in his right mind would give any credence
to these demented anonymous rantings, the result of their accumulation
is to turn off people from the newsgroups.

All this has  a very precise name: it's fascism.
Use intimidation to occupy the streets, bully everyone into silence,
trigger the forces of destruction. (And of course don't forget
anti-semitism, hatred of those with different sexual mores, of
foreigners etc.)

The good news is that apparently this concerns just one person.

If you feel that one person should not be permitted to perform
character assassinations and undermine a whole medium of technical
discussion, please be thoughtful about your responses (for one thing,
e-mail may be better than News). Any suggestion as how to get rid
of the brown plague (against, without introducing a cure worse than
the disease, e.g. flooding these newsgroups with non-technical postings)
will be gratefully appreciated. I apologize again for the present
non-technical posting, but it seems that there was no other choice.

Regardless of all other actions that may be taken, part of the answer is
- as suggested implicitly by Jeffrey Stulin, Bruce Mount and others
to continue having reasoned and instructive discussions (including
fighting each other technically when we disagree), and not let
ourselves be bullied into resignation.

Now I'll get back to my work. (For anyone interested please see
following posting about the Eiffel-Java interface.)


-- 
Bertrand Meyer, President, ISE Inc., Santa Barbara (California)
805-685-1006, fax 805-685-6869, <Bertrand.Meyer@eiffel.com> -
ftp://ftp.eiffel.com
Visit our Web page: http://www.eiffel.com
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