From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,INVALID_MSGID autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: fac41,a48e5b99425d742a X-Google-Attributes: gidfac41,public X-Google-Thread: f43e6,a48e5b99425d742a X-Google-Attributes: gidf43e6,public X-Google-Thread: 1108a1,5da92b52f6784b63 X-Google-Attributes: gid1108a1,public X-Google-Thread: 107d55,a48e5b99425d742a X-Google-Attributes: gid107d55,public X-Google-Thread: ffc1e,a48e5b99425d742a X-Google-Attributes: gidffc1e,public X-Google-Thread: 103376,a48e5b99425d742a X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public From: Bertrand Meyer Subject: Re: FUD (Re: Papers on the Ariane-5 crash and Design by Contract) Date: 1997/03/23 Message-ID: <3335E235.4DAA423A@eiffel.com>#1/1 X-Deja-AN: 227869758 References: <332B5495.167EB0E7@eiffel.com> <33343975.31DFF4F5@eiffel.com> <33335686.FF6D5DF@eiffel.com> <33343EE3.7DE14518@eiffel.com> <5h1sbt$pds$1@goanna.cs.rmit.edu.au> <3335E18E.33590565@eiffel.com> Organization: Interactive Software Engineering Inc. Newsgroups: comp.lang.eiffel,comp.object,comp.software-eng,comp.programming.threads,comp.lang.ada,comp.lang.java.tech Date: 1997-03-23T00:00:00+00:00 List-Id: Dale Stanbrough writes: >> Oh dear, more FUD being spread FUD, if I am not mistaken, means "Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt" and I am the one who, in Mr. Stanbrough's view, is spreading it to unsuspecting Usenet readers. Pretty nasty stuff! A bit of rhetorical exaggeration perhaps? The case in point: I quoted verbatim a 1980 text where Tony Hoare criticizes Ada exceptions. Mr. Stanbrough quotes a 1987 book preface in which Hoare appears more gracious about Ada. I am grateful to Mr. Stanbrough for bringing up the second text, which I did not know (although I am curious about what was in the numerous ellipses "..." of his extract). But in what way does the existence of that later Hoare text make me a spreader of Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt? I did not write "Tony Hoare is against Ada"; I stated that Hoare has criticized Ada exceptions. This is for everyone to see in either the text of his 1980 Turing lecture, available in the Communications of the ACM and also republished for example in "Essays in Computing Science" (the collection of his major papers), ed. by Cliff B. Jones, Prentice Hall, 1989, where it figures very prominently (first place, regardless of the chronological order used for the other articles), and which does not include the 1987 preface, not even quoted in the book's bibliography. I hope that without calling each other names we can agree that: - Some people have criticized the Ada exception mechanism (my original point, a small aside in a text on something else). - Hoare was one of them (although, as I pointed out in my second message, it is not clear on further examination whether his objections were to exceptions in general or just those of Ada). - He has, more recently, made positive comments about Ada in at least one text, a preface to a book on Ada. All this seems fairly obvious (the third point thanks to Mr. Stanbrough) and factual, rather than subject to fighting. Since the whole thing was, as pointed out, started by a 10-word aside ("Although it is possible to criticize the Ada exception mechanism")in the paper by Jean-Marc Jezequel and myself at http://www.eiffel.com and in IEEE Computer , there does not seem to be much reason for more rhetoric on this particular point. P.S. By the way, regardless of your views on Ada and on exceptions, Hoare's Turing Award lecture is a masterpiece. Every software engineeer, in my opinion, should have read it -- Bertrand Meyer, President, ISE Inc., Santa Barbara (California) 805-685-1006, fax 805-685-6869, - ftp://ftp.eiffel.com Visit our Web page: http://www.eiffel.com (including instructions to download Eiffel 4 for Windows)