From: Alan Lovejoy <alovejoy@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: Definition of "operator" (was: OO, C++, and something much better!)
Date: 1997/02/17
Date: 1997-02-17T00:00:00+00:00 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <33091940.55A8@concentric.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 5de62l$f13$1@goanna.cs.rmit.edu.au
Jon S Anthony wrote:
>
> In article <330789FA.40A5@concentric.net> Alan Lovejoy <alovejoy@concentric.net> writes:
> > So here's a theory: the term "operator" in programming languages was
> > coined by applying it to those built-in procedures which were
> > intended to be analogs of math functions that formally qualify as
> > "operations." Later, other "built-in" procedures also got called
> > "operators" by (uninformed) analogy.
>
> That's probably pretty much what happened. It would be interesting to
> hear from Robert Dewar on this as he seems to have a lot of insight
> (inside info?) on the history of programming language design.
>
> > If the theory is true, then a case could be made that a procedure
> > should be called an "operation" (and its name an "operator") if its
> > math analog formally qualifies as an "operation" (a function whose
> > domain is an n-order set and whose range is a 1-order set, such as
> > "f(Complex, Complex): Complex").
>
> Just to be clear, the range is not just any ol' "1-order set" it's the
> same set used in defining the n-order domain set.
Understood. My statement was unintentionally incomplete.
> What I'm having trouble with here (and in the discussion that prompted
> this new thread) is what distinguishing the notions of "operator" and
> "operation" buys you in the context of CS/PLs. I'm not saying it's
> worthless, I'm just not clear on why people think it is useful here.
The terms are already used--inconsistently, and without formal
precision.
At a minimum, the "value add" is to clean that up. And hopefully, to
also benefit from some well-chosen definition of the terms.
> > Also, if the proposed definition of "operator/operation" is adopted,
> > what would be a good term for tokens such as "return" (in C or C++),
> > or the return ("^") and assignment (":=") symbols in Smalltalk, that
> > represent "built in" actions whose semantics are defined by the
> > language?
>
> "Intrinsics"? But then, I think this term is already used for various
> other things...
"Intrinsic" works better as an adjective.
> > So the question is: shat should the terms "operator" and "operation"
> > mean in computer science? Do you think the meaning of these terms
> > should or should not be anologous to their meaning in math? Why or
> > why not?
>
> Shouldn't the first questions be: What use is there in distinguishing
> these terms in CS/PLs? And, why would you want to do that (what's the
> point)?
Yes, the qustion of utility should be the primary motivator.
The point is to get rid of inconsistency and to establish the agreed
upon
usage of common terms--and perhaps to also formally define them, if
possible.
--
Alan L. Lovejoy | Why Smalltalk?
Smalltalk Consultant | Because I don't want to follow the crowd,
alovejoy@concentric.net | but to lead it.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~1997-02-17 0:00 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 379+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
1997-01-16 0:00 OO, C++, and something much better! Jon S Anthony
1997-01-17 0:00 ` Don Harrison
1997-01-16 0:00 ` Matthew Heaney
1997-01-17 0:00 ` Alan Lovejoy
1997-01-17 0:00 ` Norman H. Cohen
1997-01-17 0:00 ` Alan Lovejoy
1997-01-18 0:00 ` Fergus Henderson
1997-01-17 0:00 ` Alan Lovejoy
1997-01-20 0:00 ` Fergus Henderson
1997-01-19 0:00 ` Alan Lovejoy
1997-01-20 0:00 ` Damon Feldman
1997-01-19 0:00 ` Alan Lovejoy
1997-01-20 0:00 ` Graham Hughes
1997-01-21 0:00 ` Alan Lovejoy
1997-01-21 0:00 ` Matt Kennel
1997-01-21 0:00 ` Marc Robertson
1997-01-24 0:00 ` Mark Windholtz
1997-01-27 0:00 ` David Hanley
1997-01-28 0:00 ` Eric Clayberg
1997-01-28 0:00 ` David Hanley
[not found] ` <32EE2FEE.62FE@p <32EE8415.2F5B@netright.com>
1997-01-28 0:00 ` Eric Clayberg
1997-01-29 0:00 ` David Hanley
1997-01-29 0:00 ` Eric Clayberg
1997-01-28 0:00 ` Alan Lovejoy
1997-01-29 0:00 ` Matt Kennel
1997-01-30 0:00 ` Alan Lovejoy
1997-01-30 0:00 ` David L. Shang
1997-01-30 0:00 ` Black box or white box (Re: OO, C++, and something much better!) David L. Shang
1997-01-29 0:00 ` OO, C++, and something much better! Jun Nolasco
1997-01-22 0:00 ` Fergus Henderson
1997-01-22 0:00 ` Fergus Henderson
1997-01-22 0:00 ` Eric Clayberg
1997-01-22 0:00 ` Graham Hughes
1997-01-23 0:00 ` Mark Woodruff
1997-01-23 0:00 ` Eric Clayberg
1997-01-23 0:00 ` Claus Reinke
1997-01-25 0:00 ` Eric Clayberg
1997-01-25 0:00 ` Fergus Henderson
1997-01-25 0:00 ` Lawrence G. Mayka
1997-01-28 0:00 ` Claus Reinke
1997-01-24 0:00 ` Don Harrison
1997-01-24 0:00 ` Eric Clayberg
1997-01-28 0:00 ` Don Harrison
1997-01-24 0:00 ` Richard A. O'Keefe
[not found] ` <E4voIF.86o@world.std.com>
1997-02-12 0:00 ` Ulf Schuenemann
1997-01-23 0:00 ` Matt Kennel
1997-01-25 0:00 ` Eric Clayberg
1997-01-27 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-01-23 0:00 ` Robb Nebbe
1997-01-23 0:00 ` David Hanley
1997-01-25 0:00 ` Eric Clayberg
1997-01-24 0:00 ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1997-01-24 0:00 ` Fergus Henderson
1997-01-24 0:00 ` Alan Lovejoy
1997-01-26 0:00 ` Fergus Henderson
1997-01-28 0:00 ` Alan Knight
1997-01-29 0:00 ` Nick Leaton
[not found] ` <32E9BAAC. <5ce8t3$6gv@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU>
1997-01-28 0:00 ` Alan Lovejoy
1997-01-29 0:00 ` Fergus Henderson
1997-01-30 0:00 ` Alan Lovejoy
1997-01-25 0:00 ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-01-27 0:00 ` Ed Shirk
1997-01-27 0:00 ` Rolf Breuning
1997-01-20 0:00 ` Bill Gooch
1997-01-20 0:00 ` David Hanley
1997-01-21 0:00 ` Alan Lovejoy
1997-01-22 0:00 ` Fergus Henderson
1997-01-22 0:00 ` Alan Lovejoy
1997-01-23 0:00 ` Bob Jarvis
1997-01-22 0:00 ` Damon Feldman
1997-01-29 0:00 ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-01-25 0:00 ` Eric Clayberg
1997-01-26 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-27 0:00 ` Bob Jarvis
1997-01-27 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-27 0:00 ` Eric Clayberg
1997-01-29 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-29 0:00 ` Robert A Duff
1997-01-29 0:00 ` Eric Clayberg
1997-01-27 0:00 ` Matthew Heaney
1997-01-27 0:00 ` Robert A Duff
1997-01-29 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-27 0:00 ` Eric Clayberg
1997-01-27 0:00 ` Samuel S. Shuster
1997-01-27 0:00 ` Richard Kenner
1997-01-29 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-30 0:00 ` Eirik Mangseth
1997-01-28 0:00 ` Jun Nolasco
1997-01-29 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-29 0:00 ` Richard Kenner
1997-01-29 0:00 ` David Hanley
1997-01-29 0:00 ` Richard Kenner
1997-01-30 0:00 ` Nick Leaton
1997-01-30 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-30 0:00 ` Richard Kenner
1997-01-30 0:00 ` Nick Leaton
1997-01-28 0:00 ` Robert I. Eachus
1997-02-08 0:00 ` Robin Rosenberg
1997-01-25 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-01-27 0:00 ` David Hanley
1997-01-29 0:00 ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-01-29 0:00 ` Dennis Smith
1997-01-27 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-01-27 0:00 ` Eric Clayberg
1997-01-29 0:00 ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-01-29 0:00 ` Fergus Henderson
1997-01-28 0:00 ` David Hanley
1997-01-28 0:00 ` Robert I. Eachus
1997-01-28 0:00 ` Luther Hampton
1997-01-28 0:00 ` Eric Clayberg
1997-01-28 0:00 ` Matt Kennel
1997-01-28 0:00 ` David Hanley
1997-01-28 0:00 ` Jacqueline U. Robertson
1997-01-29 0:00 ` David Hanley
1997-01-29 0:00 ` Fergus Henderson
1997-01-30 0:00 ` Robert C. Martin
[not found] ` <5cr068$gpa@uni.library.ucla.edu>
1997-06-27 0:00 ` David Shang
1997-06-28 0:00 ` Mike Stark
1997-06-28 0:00 ` Ronald E Jeffries
1997-06-29 0:00 ` Mike Anderson
1997-06-29 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-06-30 0:00 ` Kohler Markus
1997-01-29 0:00 ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-01-29 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-01-29 0:00 ` Rolf Breuning
1997-01-29 0:00 ` Eric Clayberg
1997-01-29 0:00 ` David Hanley
1997-01-29 0:00 ` Eric Clayberg
1997-01-25 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-26 0:00 ` James O'Connor
1997-01-26 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-26 0:00 ` George Wolke
1997-01-27 0:00 ` Jerry van Dijk
1997-01-28 0:00 ` Robert A Duff
1997-01-28 0:00 ` Jerry van Dijk
1997-01-29 0:00 ` Stanley R. Allen
1997-01-30 0:00 ` Robert A Duff
1997-01-28 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-01-29 0:00 ` Robert A Duff
1997-01-28 0:00 ` Alan Lovejoy
1997-01-25 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-27 0:00 ` Bob Jarvis
1997-01-27 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-28 0:00 ` Alan Lovejoy
1997-01-19 0:00 ` Soren Skogstad Nielsen
1997-01-20 0:00 ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-01-26 0:00 ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-01-29 0:00 ` Multiple Type Interfaces Jon S Anthony
1997-01-28 0:00 ` Norman H. Cohen
1997-01-28 0:00 ` david scott gibson
1997-01-28 0:00 ` Matthew Heaney
1997-01-29 0:00 ` david scott gibson
1997-01-29 0:00 ` Robert A Duff
1997-01-29 0:00 ` david scott gibson
1997-01-28 0:00 ` Dave Gibson
1997-01-28 0:00 ` Robert A Duff
1997-01-21 0:00 ` OO, C++, and something much better! Matthew S. Whiting
1997-01-22 0:00 ` Fergus Henderson
1997-01-22 0:00 ` Don Harrison
1997-01-22 0:00 ` John Kuszewski
1997-01-23 0:00 ` Don Harrison
1997-01-23 0:00 ` Tansel Ersavas
1997-01-23 0:00 ` Travis Griggs
1997-01-24 0:00 ` Fergus Henderson
1997-01-22 0:00 ` Eric Clayberg
1997-01-23 0:00 ` Don Harrison
1997-01-27 0:00 ` John Woods
1997-01-28 0:00 ` Alan Lovejoy
1997-01-23 0:00 ` Combining dynamic and static typing Don Harrison
1997-01-24 0:00 ` Erik M. Buck
[not found] ` <01bc0b21$6a8293e0$7df2ad80@wkst01.milagro.austin.tx.us>
1997-01-25 0:00 ` Nathan M. Urban
1997-01-28 0:00 ` David L. Shang
1997-01-28 0:00 ` Luther Hampton
1997-01-29 0:00 ` Marc De Scheemaecker
1997-01-28 0:00 ` Nathan M. Urban
1997-01-29 0:00 ` Russ McClelland
1997-01-29 0:00 ` David L. Shang
[not found] ` <5d0efr$meb@news.xmission.com>
1997-02-09 0:00 ` daniel damian burden
1997-01-27 0:00 ` David L. Shang
1997-01-27 0:00 ` Robert I. Eachus
1997-01-28 0:00 ` Robert C. Martin
1997-01-29 0:00 ` David L. Shang
1997-01-24 0:00 ` OO, C++, and something much better! Andy Bower
1997-01-25 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-26 0:00 ` William Clodius
1997-01-25 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-26 0:00 ` Eric Clayberg
1997-01-26 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-26 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-27 0:00 ` Robert C. Martin
1997-01-29 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-29 0:00 ` Robert A Duff
1997-01-22 0:00 ` Alan Lovejoy
1997-01-21 0:00 ` Matthew S. Whiting
1997-01-24 0:00 ` Tansel Ersavas
1997-01-24 0:00 ` Tansel Ersavas
1997-01-25 0:00 ` Robert A Duff
1997-01-26 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-26 0:00 ` James O'Connor
1997-01-26 0:00 ` TanselErsavas
1997-01-26 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-27 0:00 ` Eric Clayberg
1997-01-28 0:00 ` Antoine Trux
1997-01-29 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-26 0:00 ` Bob Haugen
1997-01-26 0:00 ` Larry J. Elmore
1997-01-26 0:00 ` Eric Clayberg
1997-01-26 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-26 0:00 ` TanselErsavas
1997-01-27 0:00 ` Samuel S. Shuster
1997-01-27 0:00 ` David Hanley
1997-01-25 0:00 ` Fergus Henderson
1997-01-24 0:00 ` Tansel Ersavas
1997-01-25 0:00 ` Damon Feldman
1997-01-26 0:00 ` Felix Beer
1997-01-28 0:00 ` Robert C. Martin
1997-01-28 0:00 ` Matt Kennel
1997-01-29 0:00 ` Del Archer
1997-01-27 0:00 ` David Hanley
1997-01-28 0:00 ` OO, C++, and more and more useless arguments! Robert C. Martin
1997-01-28 0:00 ` OO, C++, and something much better! Alan Lovejoy
1997-01-28 0:00 ` Al Christians
1997-01-29 0:00 ` Alan Lovejoy
1997-02-21 0:00 ` Eric W. Nikitin
1997-02-21 0:00 ` Brian Rogoff
1997-02-21 0:00 ` Chris Bitmead
1997-02-24 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-02-24 0:00 ` Brian Rogoff
1997-02-25 0:00 ` Eric W. Nikitin
1997-01-21 0:00 ` Norman H. Cohen
1997-01-22 0:00 ` Eric Clayberg
1997-01-23 0:00 ` Static vs. Dynamic typing again (was Re: OO, C++, and something much better!) Richie Bielak
1997-01-23 0:00 ` Bill Gooch
1997-01-23 0:00 ` Eric Clayberg
1997-01-23 0:00 ` Richie Bielak
1997-01-23 0:00 ` Rolf Breuning
1997-01-23 0:00 ` Eric Clayberg
1997-01-24 0:00 ` Richie Bielak
1997-01-24 0:00 ` Bob Jarvis
1997-01-24 0:00 ` Richie Bielak
1997-01-27 0:00 ` Eric W. Nikitin
1997-01-25 0:00 ` Robert A Duff
1997-01-30 0:00 ` Damon Feldman
1997-01-30 0:00 ` Robert A Duff
1997-01-30 0:00 ` Defintion, again, was Re: Static vs. Dynamic typing again David L. Shang
1997-01-30 0:00 ` Static vs. Dynamic typing again (was Re: OO, C++, and something much better!) Fergus Henderson
1997-02-09 0:00 ` Piercarlo Grandi
1997-02-10 0:00 ` Matt Kennel
1997-02-14 0:00 ` Piercarlo Grandi
1997-01-24 0:00 ` Robb Nebbe
1997-01-25 0:00 ` OO, C++, and something much better! David N. Smith
1997-02-15 0:00 ` Static vs. Dynamic typing again (was Re: OO, C++, and something much better!) Pieter Schoenmakers
1997-02-16 0:00 ` Piercarlo Grandi
1997-01-27 0:00 ` Jun Nolasco
1997-01-28 0:00 ` Mark Windholtz
1997-01-28 0:00 ` Richie Bielak
1997-01-23 0:00 ` Richie Bielak
1997-01-24 0:00 ` Eirik Mangseth
[not found] ` <32E85588.1978@parcplace.com>
1997-01-26 0:00 ` Paul Perkins
1997-01-26 0:00 ` Robert A Duff
1997-01-29 0:00 ` John Gale
1997-01-30 0:00 ` Robert A Duff
1997-01-28 0:00 ` Damon Feldman
1997-01-28 0:00 ` Eric Clayberg
1997-01-28 0:00 ` Alan Knight
1997-02-08 0:00 ` Static vs. Dynamic typing again (was Re: OO, C++, and something mu Joachim Durchholz
1997-01-23 0:00 ` OO, C++, and something much better! Norman H. Cohen
1997-01-24 0:00 ` traymond
1997-01-27 0:00 ` Norman H. Cohen
1997-01-28 0:00 ` traymond
1997-01-24 0:00 ` Eric Clayberg
1997-01-27 0:00 ` Norman H. Cohen
1997-01-28 0:00 ` Tim Ottinger
1997-01-29 0:00 ` Ted Dennison
1997-01-25 0:00 ` Tansel Ersavas
1997-01-27 0:00 ` Norman H. Cohen
1997-01-27 0:00 ` Brian Rogoff
1997-01-28 0:00 ` Reflection in Ada (was: Re: OO, C++, and something much better!) Norman H. Cohen
1997-01-29 0:00 ` Eric W. Nikitin
1997-01-30 0:00 ` OO, C++, and something much better! Tim Ottinger
1997-01-23 0:00 ` James O'Connor
1997-01-29 0:00 ` Stanley R. Allen
1997-01-30 0:00 ` Robert A Duff
1997-01-27 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-01-19 0:00 ` Keith Thompson
1997-01-22 0:00 ` Don Harrison
1997-01-23 0:00 ` Norman H. Cohen
1997-01-24 0:00 ` Don Harrison
1997-01-27 0:00 ` Norman H. Cohen
1997-01-29 0:00 ` "(Sub)type" -safety Don Harrison
1997-01-29 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-01-30 0:00 ` Don Harrison
1997-01-23 0:00 ` OO, C++, and something much better! Robert I. Eachus
1997-01-20 0:00 ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen FOU.TD/DELAB
1997-01-24 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-01-26 0:00 ` Eric Clayberg
1997-01-27 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-01-27 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-01-27 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-01-28 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-01-29 0:00 ` Stephen J Bevan
1997-01-21 0:00 ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-01-22 0:00 ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1997-01-27 0:00 ` Robert A Duff
1997-01-27 0:00 ` Bob Jarvis
1997-01-28 0:00 ` Travis Griggs
1997-01-28 0:00 ` Norman H. Cohen
1997-01-28 0:00 ` Russ McClelland
1997-01-27 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-27 0:00 ` Robert A Duff
1997-01-29 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-27 0:00 ` John Woods
1997-01-22 0:00 ` Eric Clayberg
1997-01-23 0:00 ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-01-24 0:00 ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-01-29 0:00 ` Multiple Type Interfaces Joachim Durchholz
1997-01-25 0:00 ` OO, C++, and something much better! Eric Clayberg
1997-01-25 0:00 ` Tansel Ersavas
1997-01-25 0:00 ` James O'Connor
1997-01-26 0:00 ` Lawrence G. Mayka
1997-01-26 0:00 ` James O'Connor
1997-01-27 0:00 ` Norman H. Cohen
1997-02-07 0:00 ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1997-02-07 0:00 ` Alan Lovejoy
1997-02-12 0:00 ` Piercarlo Grandi
1997-02-13 0:00 ` Alan Lovejoy
[not found] ` <yf3ybcsm5ce.fsf@sabi.demon.co.uk>
1997-02-14 0:00 ` Alan Lovejoy
1997-02-16 0:00 ` Piercarlo Grandi
1997-02-16 0:00 ` Alan Lovejoy
1997-02-17 0:00 ` Piercarlo Grandi
1997-02-13 0:00 ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1997-02-13 0:00 ` Alan Lovejoy
1997-02-18 0:00 ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1997-02-19 0:00 ` richard
1997-02-19 0:00 ` Mike Klein
1997-02-19 0:00 ` William Clodius
1997-02-19 0:00 ` Mike Klein
1997-02-15 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-02-16 0:00 ` Piercarlo Grandi
1997-02-16 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-02-18 0:00 ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1997-02-20 0:00 ` Matt Kennel
1997-02-20 0:00 ` Anders Pytte
1997-02-16 0:00 ` Definition of "operator" (was: OO, C++, and something much better!) Alan Lovejoy
1997-02-19 0:00 ` Dave Schaumann
1997-02-19 0:00 ` Anders Pytte
1997-02-17 0:00 ` OO, C++, and something much better! Jon S Anthony
1997-02-17 0:00 ` Alan Lovejoy [this message]
1997-02-19 0:00 ` Definition of "operator" (was: OO, C++, and something much better!) David L. Shang
1997-02-21 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-02-24 0:00 ` David L. Shang
1997-02-25 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-02-17 0:00 ` OO, C++, and something much better! Alan Lovejoy
1997-02-17 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-02-19 0:00 ` Piercarlo Grandi
1997-02-19 0:00 ` Mike Klein
1997-02-17 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-02-19 0:00 ` Piercarlo Grandi
1997-02-18 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-02-19 0:00 ` Piercarlo Grandi
1997-02-19 0:00 ` Piercarlo Grandi
1997-02-18 0:00 ` Definition of "operator" (was: OO, C++, and something much better!) Jon S Anthony
1997-02-18 0:00 ` OO, C++, and something much better! Bernard Badger
1997-02-21 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-02-24 0:00 ` Piercarlo Grandi
1997-02-22 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-02-22 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-02-25 0:00 ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1997-02-22 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-02-22 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-02-22 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-02-23 0:00 ` Definition of "operator" (was: OO, C++, and something much better!) Richard Katz
1997-02-24 0:00 ` David L. Shang
1997-02-25 0:00 ` OO, C++, and something much better! Jon S Anthony
1997-02-25 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-02-27 0:00 ` Clayton Weaver
1997-02-25 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-02-26 0:00 ` Mike Klein
1997-02-25 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
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