From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,INVALID_MSGID autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 109fba,b87849933931bc93 X-Google-Attributes: gid109fba,public X-Google-Thread: fac41,b87849933931bc93 X-Google-Attributes: gidfac41,public X-Google-Thread: 1108a1,b87849933931bc93 X-Google-Attributes: gid1108a1,public X-Google-Thread: 114809,b87849933931bc93 X-Google-Attributes: gid114809,public X-Google-Thread: 11cae8,b87849933931bc93 X-Google-Attributes: gid11cae8,public X-Google-Thread: f43e6,b87849933931bc93 X-Google-Attributes: gidf43e6,public X-Google-Thread: 103376,b87849933931bc93 X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public From: sshuster@parcplace.com (Samuel S. Shuster) Subject: Re: What is wrong with OO ? Date: 1996/12/16 Message-ID: <32b55196.1250002@nntp.interaccess.com>#1/1 X-Deja-AN: 204382793 references: <32A4659D.347A@shef.ac.uk> <32A71BC6.2D857063@arscorp.com> <32A82AFE.255A@possibility.com> <58bq8c$3n6@news.utdallas.edu> <32ABCB1F.5207@possibility.com> <32b016d4.3487487@nntp.interaccess.com> <32B125E0.7880@calfp.co.uk> content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii organization: InterAccess, Chicago's best Internet Service Provider mime-version: 1.0 newsgroups: comp.lang.c++,comp.lang.smalltalk,comp.lang.eiffel,comp.lang.ada,comp.lnag.java,comp.object,comp.software-eng Date: 1996-12-16T00:00:00+00:00 List-Id: Nick Leaton, >> I've got an opinion as to why. VisualBasic does not promote a disciplined >> approach to development. [ yadda-yadda-my-babble ] > >It also fails because it is 'visual'. People think building the UI is >building the system. Building a model is not the usual disciplined >approach taken with VB. You can do this with VB, but I haven't seen >many examples. Ok, but only to a point. There is nothing inherently wrong with Visual programming. Read on. There is significant problems with 99% of the tools out there that are "Visual" today. The problem is that they focus the Visual stuff totally on the "View" - User Interface. There is no Visual Application Modeling, there is no Visual Domain Modeling (well, no Dynamic stuff, just static CASE - ER Modeling BS), there is no Visual Persistence Modeling, there is no Visual Coordinator Modeling, etc. Each of these things CAN be presented with Visual tools. I worked on a project (Continuum) that was doing this. The fact that these tools don't exist commercially, doesn't in and of itself make "Visual" bad. Only the current myopic set of tools that focus on the least meaningful end of the development continuum... the User Interface. That said, yes, people think building the UI is building the system, and its not only the cart in front of the horse, it's the whole buggy before there's a road to ride it on. It is wrong, and it is promoted by almost every visual tool on the market. Because of this, Visual/Declaritive development probably won't see it's full potential. This is sad. I just don't believe that it's a fundamental problem of "Visual Development"... any more than it was a fundamental problem of the IDE tools of the previous generation. And So It Goes Sames ============================================================================ sshuster@parcplace.com ParcPlace-Digitalk Consultant All opinions are my own. ============================================================================