From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,INVALID_MSGID, REPLYTO_WITHOUT_TO_CC autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 109fba,b87849933931bc93 X-Google-Attributes: gid109fba,public X-Google-Thread: 1108a1,b87849933931bc93 X-Google-Attributes: gid1108a1,public X-Google-Thread: 114809,b87849933931bc93 X-Google-Attributes: gid114809,public X-Google-Thread: fac41,b87849933931bc93 X-Google-Attributes: gidfac41,public X-Google-Thread: 103376,b87849933931bc93 X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-Thread: f43e6,b87849933931bc93 X-Google-Attributes: gidf43e6,public From: Tansel Ersavas Subject: Re: OO, C++, and something much better! Date: 1997/01/25 Message-ID: <32E9F63A.159D@rase.com>#1/1 X-Deja-AN: 212110723 references: <32DF458F.4D5C@concentric.net> <32DF94DC.6FF8@watson.ibm.com> <32DFD972.37E4@concentric.net> <32E4FC5B.242C@watson.ibm.com> <32E6862D.608B@parcplace.com> <32E788D4.4B91@watson.ibm.com> content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii organization: RASE Inc. mime-version: 1.0 reply-to: tansel@rase.com newsgroups: comp.lang.c++,comp.lang.smalltalk,comp.lang.eiffel,comp.lang.ada,comp.object,comp.software-eng x-mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; U) Date: 1997-01-25T00:00:00+00:00 List-Id: Norman H. Cohen wrote: > I mentioned the securities industry specifically because Alan Lovejoy > had brought up the use of Smalltalk in that industry. This industry has > perceived that Smalltalk speeds deployment of software, but I suspect > that few realize that this is accomplished by deferring the detection of > some errors until after deployment! The appropriate comparison here is > not to C++ (an error-prone language whose supposedly strong typing > system is too weak to catch many of the errors that language fosters), > but to a safety-oriented language such as Ada. Given the potential > financial impact of an incorrect program, people in this industry ought > to demand the same protection against programming errors that purchasers > of safety-critical software demand. As you rightly point out, there are many errors in some statically typed languages such as C++ that would be deferred till execution such as dangling pointers that require sophisticated tools to identify them at run-time, so just being statically typed is not a guarantee. In Smalltalk, I am internally testing a tool that captures and embeds type checking automatically during development, and strips that information when you request. This way I can actually apply not only type checking, but few other checks that increase reliability dramatically, while not compromising flexibility. For instance I can check the validity of interface for potential candidates (not necessarily inherited from the same class) of a hetorogeneous collection which will allow me to have a hetorogeneous collection with the knowledge that everything I keep in that collection has a valid interface. If I encounter a special problem, I as an individual can add specific diagnostics for this type of problem so easily to my suite of problem detection tools. These facilities are like extending the language. And you can never do things in Ada to increase flexibility dramatically. > Then again, I suppose they wouldn't be in the securities industry if > they didn't enjoy high-stakes gambles. :-) Then again, I suppose that paraniod Ada crippled by these concerns is mostly used by the defence industry where perceived correctness is paramount at any price. People can use Ada where the business is killing the right people, but, thanks, I'll use languages such as Smalltalk and Self, and I know that I can make them as secure as possible if I want to. Tansel ----------------------------------------------------------------------- RASE Inc. Clark NJ USA Voice: (908) 396 7145 mailto:tansel@rase.com Fax: (908) 382 1383 http://www.rase.com/ ----Sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic--- -------------------------------A.C. Clarke-----------------------------