Re: What is wrong with OO ?

[Tansel Ersavas <tansel@rase.com>]

Adam Beneschan wrote:

> "Every training should include a motivational component"???  This is
> probably true for trainings that are likely to include a bunch of
> unmotivated people who don't want to be there and are in the training
> only because their boss is making them and who were hoping to go
> through the rest of their lives making money by doing the same thing
> over and over without having to learn anything new.  Hopefully, I
> wouldn't have any such people working for me.  I also wouldn't want
> employees who are able to get so excited that they would "eagerly
> accept" what a teacher is teaching them; I'd prefer those who are
> smart enough to look at the material analytically, so that they would
> understand when, how, and why to apply it.

I would like to congratulate you if you  were able to organize such a
group. IME only small software houses or very autonomous, independent
sections of big companies are able to collect such people. Sadly, in
many other cases there are a bunch of people in the courses just because
their company want them to be in that course. If you have a group of
people who know what they want, and ready to absorb, that would be
great. IME, even for eager classes , still use a touch of motivation,
which is embedded in my own (as you say) eagerness, and ability to show
what can be done with OO, and how different and better it would be. 
Also my mention of motivation shouldn�t be mixed with pure motivational
techniques, which I also use sometimes at my and the people�s
discretion.  Training can be thread by itself, and I guess it has no 
place in comp.object unless it is "how to teach OO" which I think should
be discussed as well. Meanwhile I know the effectiveness of my
techniques, and I�ll continue to use them.
 
> 
> [By the way, I'm speaking as someone who spent a lot of time and money
> in the past in courses that could be called "motivational" or
> "self-development" seminars.  While they did me a world of good, my
> experiences have convinced me that the practice of exciting trainees
> so that they accept things eagerly (and unquestioningly) has great
> potential for harm as well as for good.]

That's true, but what harm could they get from eagerly learning OO?
Applying it more rigorously? IME I get more benefit, and hardly any
harm. 

> Finally, does anyone else feel insulted by Tansel's post?  There seems
> to be an undercurrent that those who don't believe in OO as fervently
> as he does [I'm assuming Tansel is a "he"] are unmotivated, have
> "given up", don't want to learn anything new, are "followers", etc.
> This seems like it would be insulting to many truly professional
> engineers.

The quote about the "pioneers", "early adopters" "followers" etc. comes
from  "Diffusion of Innovations" by Everett Rogers, and I quote it a lot
along with the percentages. However, I haven't had anybody offended or
insulted by these statistics. Yes,  IMO anybody joining OO before OO
becomes a mainstream will be pioneers or early adopters. If you are
looking at penetration of OO to the mainstream computing, we are far off
the mainstream as yet. So I couldn't have possibly said or implied that
anybody not coming to the OO bandwagon right now would be followers. 
Besides, even if I implied that, what could be wrong if someone chooses
to be a follower? I have the strong belief that people have a right to
be where they are, and do what they want. From time to time, I would
like to be a follower, rather than a pioneer or an early adopter, and
that would be my choice. Anyone pointing that out to me, I would simply
state my reasons to be a follower, and listen to the other person with
an open mind. I would choose to be a follower or even a conservative if
I think that there won't be any benefits, or even some harm can be done
by following a certain path. So even if someone declares that they are a
conservative, I would listen to what they say, try to understand their
reasons. Because I can learn from them, and to a conservative I am the
other extreme. I would hope that he or she could do the same for me.

Sometimes there is a wisdom of being ahead or behind, it is very
healthy, and I have respect for ALL of them.

All I want to do is create a little bit excitement for OO, because I can
clearly see the benefits of it. So I want everybody to look into it.  

BTW I heard the "given ups" comment from a child at one of our
conversations about computers, and I sometimes quote it because it is an
interesting point of view to come out of a 10 year old , not in any way
to deride people.

>                                 -- Adam
Tansel
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