From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,INVALID_MSGID, REPLYTO_WITHOUT_TO_CC autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: fac41,b87849933931bc93 X-Google-Attributes: gidfac41,public X-Google-Thread: 109fba,b87849933931bc93 X-Google-Attributes: gid109fba,public X-Google-Thread: f43e6,b87849933931bc93 X-Google-Attributes: gidf43e6,public X-Google-Thread: 1108a1,b87849933931bc93 X-Google-Attributes: gid1108a1,public X-Google-Thread: 11cae8,b87849933931bc93 X-Google-Attributes: gid11cae8,public X-Google-Thread: 103376,b87849933931bc93 X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-Thread: 114809,b87849933931bc93 X-Google-Attributes: gid114809,public From: Tansel Ersavas Subject: Re: What is wrong with OO ? Date: 1996/12/17 Message-ID: <32B65D6C.6F10@deep.net>#1/1 X-Deja-AN: 204547130 references: <32A4659D.347A@shef.ac.uk> <32A71BC6.2D857063@arscorp.com> <32A82AFE.255A@possibility.com> <58bq8c$3n6@news.utdallas.edu> <32ABCB1F.5207@possibility.com> <32b016d4.3487487@nntp.interaccess.com> <32B125E0.7880@calfp.co.uk> <32b55196.1250002@nntp.interaccess.com> content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii organization: RASE Inc. mime-version: 1.0 reply-to: tansel@deep.net newsgroups: comp.lang.c++,comp.lang.smalltalk,comp.lang.eiffel,comp.lang.ada,comp.lnag.java,comp.object,comp.software-eng x-mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; U) Date: 1996-12-17T00:00:00+00:00 List-Id: Samuel S. Shuster wrote: > >It also fails because it is 'visual'. People think building the UI is > >building the system. Building a model is not the usual disciplined > >approach taken with VB. You can do this with VB, but I haven't seen > >many examples. > > Ok, but only to a point. There is nothing inherently wrong with Visual > programming. Read on. There is significant problems with 99% of the tools out > there that are "Visual" today. The problem is that they focus the Visual stuff > totally on the "View" - User Interface. There is no Visual Application Modeling, > there is no Visual Domain Modeling (well, no Dynamic stuff, just static CASE - > ER Modeling BS), there is no Visual Persistence Modeling, there is no Visual > Coordinator Modeling, etc. That's quite right. The object model can be represented, as well as the existing code can be visualized with the right visual tools, and this can be very enlightening. In fact I have been using visual tools to not only program, but teach OO and Smalltalk. Have you ever seen the entire class structure of Smalltalk visually? It is quite a sight. Logical grouping to categories, viewing a small part of the class hierarcy, visually adding, deleting classes, changing the inheritence structure in your favorite notation right on the spot? These are very powerful features, and allow you to model your system, not only the UI, with the user. > The fact that these tools don't exist > commercially, This statement will not be true after we release our new OO modeling tool "Snowball Rapid Systems Engineering Tool" very soon. ... All deleted stuff, very much agreed ... > Because of this, Visual/Declaritive development probably won't see it's full > potential. This is sad. I just don't believe that it's a fundamental problem of > "Visual Development"... any more than it was a fundamental problem of the IDE > tools of the previous generation. Times are changing. We have such a tool, and we are very convinced that this is the way of future. However, our approach to the problem is quite different to most other people's approach. First of all, we didn't invent a visual programming language. What we did was to take an existing language, and create a visual layer (aka a visual editor) on top of it. This language had to be very flexible, so most of the current populer languages didn't qualify, except Smalltalk. Our approach to visual programming is to visualize the system in any of its canonical forms the developer requests instantly: class diagrams, category diagrams, std diagrams. We are also adding to this list object diagrams that are dynamically generated while your program is running, and you can use them as visual inspectors-debuggers. We use a trademark techniques that we developed to visualize the system and create source from the system we call "Instant Reverse Engineering(tm)", and "Instant Code Generation(tm)". With these techniques, the moment you draw a class on a screen, your corresponding Smalltalk class is ready. You can switch between the textual and visual views of the system within seconds, and work at the level you feel comfortable. If a class represents a window, then you can switch between the class diagram view, window design view, stm view, or source code. You can create an instance and test it at any time. You can also create documentation related to not only visual parts of the system, but for non visual parts as well. I think, we can now show people how visual programming can really bump up their productivity. It also accelerates learning, and promotes more high level thinking. Visual programming is to textual programming what is textual programming to assembly language. > And So It Goes > Sames Tansel Ersavas ----------------------------------------------------------------------- RASE Inc. Clark NJ USA Voice: (908) 396 7145 mailto:tansel@rase.com Fax: (908) 382 1383 http://www.rase.com/ ----Sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic--- A.C. 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