From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.1 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_20,INVALID_MSGID, REPLYTO_WITHOUT_TO_CC autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: fac41,b87849933931bc93 X-Google-Attributes: gidfac41,public X-Google-Thread: 109fba,b87849933931bc93 X-Google-Attributes: gid109fba,public X-Google-Thread: 103376,b87849933931bc93 X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-Thread: f43e6,b87849933931bc93 X-Google-Attributes: gidf43e6,public X-Google-Thread: 114809,b87849933931bc93 X-Google-Attributes: gid114809,public X-Google-Thread: 1108a1,b87849933931bc93 X-Google-Attributes: gid1108a1,public X-Google-Thread: 11cae8,b87849933931bc93 X-Google-Attributes: gid11cae8,public From: Tansel Ersavas Subject: Re: What is wrong with OO ? Date: 1996/12/07 Message-ID: <32AA207E.3199@deep.net>#1/1 X-Deja-AN: 202907273 references: <32A4659D.347A@shef.ac.uk> <32A71BC6.2D857063@arscorp.com> <32A82AFE.255A@possibility.com> <58bq8c$3n6@news.utdallas.edu> content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii organization: RASE Inc. mime-version: 1.0 reply-to: tansel@deep.net newsgroups: comp.lang.c++,comp.lang.smalltalk,comp.lang.eiffel,comp.lang.ada,comp.lnag.java,comp.object,comp.software-eng x-mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; U) Date: 1996-12-07T00:00:00+00:00 List-Id: ... Disucssion deleted > >It seems those who've "got" OO blame the people. Maybe we > >should blame the hammer. Maybe OO just won't work in > >the mass market of building applications. Not that it > >can't, but that it doesn't work often enough to make it > >universally appropriate. > > Or maybe it's just taught poorly. I've been pretty successful in > teaching OOP to people who don't know it already. However, it takes an > awful lot of work on both the instructor's and the student's part, as > well as a proper approach. That is, rather than my trying to cram > dozens of constructs down the student's throat, we take them slowly > and in the proper sequence. The student won't know as many facts when > we get done as if he'd read a "Learn C++ in Five Seconds" book, but he > or she will KNOW and UNDERSTAND the material I've taught. > Ladies and Gentlemen, Before we discuss 'what is wrong with OO', shouldn't we discuss what is wrong with the current popular paradigm, procedure orientation. Most of us seem to have forgotten it is just a historical accident that we program the way we do in procedural approach, and if we are in a total mess as software developers, one of the biggest reasons is our insistence on procedure orientation. Most of the current OO implementations carry a legacy of people with procedure oriented background, and that reflects quite badly on the projects. Languages that easily allow such escapes also contribute to this phenomena. Once we accept the problems of the procedure orientation (see my previous posting to comp.object about the subject) then we can look at the alternatives. When we conquer new places, the first to go usually perish. It is tough to be a pioneer. However, with persistence and perseverence, we build necesary access and support systems, and that new place becomes very hospitable and finally, a source of great wealth. Luckily, time for being a pioneer in OO is just about to pass. Now comes better times and even prosperity. There are three major reasons why OO projects fail. All of them are stated by the great wisdom of Jedi in "Star Wars". These are: "Do or do not. There is no try" Using my tools and techniques, I can prove you that I can produce better and faster systems using OO (Please read my notes at the end of this message). If I can do it, so you can.If you just try to do it, you will fail. Be determined to do it. "You must unlearn what you have learned" People cling so heavily to the baggage they have been carrying, they can not have an open mind about OO. SO the first thing I do in my training sessions is to create doubts and questions about the problems of the procedural approach, and why procedure orientation is a very ineffective technique for most new problems. Of course, you should have a very good mentor that is capable of demonstrating these in practical terms. "You must believe in what you are doing" OO will help you. It will feel awkward at times, but you must persist with it. You will be eventually rewarded. Coming to the question of "What is wrong with OO" the question should read "What are the problems in the current state of OO that slows down it's progress". There three major problems that slows down OO. . Lack of expertise, personal and team skills (human issues) . Lack of fast, efficient and practical tools-environments that make programming one of the the most labor-oriented, miserable works available Today . Lack of practical OO application techniques and ways that will integrate OO with other succesful paradigms Current state of OO suffers from all of the above. Each and every one of these problems are soluble, Indeed as a company, we are working on and have at least intermediate solutions for all of them. BTW I get a much better response for OO from children. For that reason, I'll offer educational versions my tools and techniques to schools so that children can be exposed to these techniques before their minds are clutterd by the current dominant paradigms. Tansel Ersavas RASE Inc. mailto:tansel@deep.net http://www.rase.com/