From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,INVALID_MSGID, REPLYTO_WITHOUT_TO_CC autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 1108a1,953e1a6689d791f6 X-Google-Attributes: gid1108a1,public X-Google-Thread: f79bb,953e1a6689d791f6 X-Google-Attributes: gidf79bb,public X-Google-Thread: 114809,953e1a6689d791f6 X-Google-Attributes: gid114809,public X-Google-Thread: 109fba,953e1a6689d791f6 X-Google-Attributes: gid109fba,public X-Google-Thread: 10a640,953e1a6689d791f6 X-Google-Attributes: gid10a640,public X-Google-Thread: 103376,953e1a6689d791f6 X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-Thread: fdb77,953e1a6689d791f6 X-Google-Attributes: gidfdb77,public X-Google-Thread: fac41,953e1a6689d791f6 X-Google-Attributes: gidfac41,public From: Doug Marker Subject: Re: Eiffel and Java Date: 1996/10/31 Message-ID: <327830C2.4873@zeta.org.au>#1/1 X-Deja-AN: 193335023 references: <550sm2$sn1@buggy.news.easynet.net> <01bbc540$c2d26dd0$7f1018ce@barrington> content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii organization: Internet Age Pty Ltd mime-version: 1.0 reply-to: dmarker@zeta.org.au newsgroups: comp.lang.eiffel,comp.lang.ada,comp.lang.sather,comp.object,comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.lang.c++,comp.lang.smalltalk,comp.lang.clos,fr.comp.objet x-mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) Date: 1996-10-31T00:00:00+00:00 List-Id: Chris, This debate really belongs in comp.lang.java - I am sure you would get a lot of interest in your opinions there :-) (lots & lots of interest ;-) Cheers - Doug Marker Smalltalk & Java solutions developer. Chris Trimble wrote: > > I see we meet again, Mr. Bon... I mean, Xelph... :-) > > Jean-Michel P. Decombe wrote: > > : I believe that Java is not the death of other languages. Java > : demonstrates that it's possible to write a language which > : is really platform-independent and "distributed". > > Java hasn't really proved the latter to me; it has yet to show real > platform independence for more than trivial applets (and even a lot of > those). Python and Tk offer far more powerful multi-platform solution > than Java/AWT. > > Here's a good example... Netscape 3.0, on my NT 4.0 box, runs a Java > applet well; NS 3.0, on my SGI Indigo2 R4400, runs it like an absolute > dog. The true proof of Java's platform dependence came about two weeks > ago. Marimba, the epitome of all Java startups, released their new > software for just two platforms -- Win32 and Solaris. Am I supposed to buy > that Sun's solution is really platform independent when their > ex-rock-stars can't deliver for tens of millions of Windows 3.1 users and > Macintosh users? > > : Nothing prevents Meyer from writing a new version of Eiffel, > : totally portable and based on a Virtual Machine, then port > : this VM on a large number of platforms, including a JITC, etc. > > Sounds like a good idea to me. Very good platform independence is > possible if someone is willing to take the time. Is Eiffel desired on > enough platforms it's not on already to warrant the port is the real > question at hand. I kinda doubt the answer is a resounding yes. > > : Java is just the beginning of a new era, but it's certainly not the > : language who will necessarily win in the end. > > Thank god. > > : For now, it's the only one to do what it does, thus it's the > : "current" winner... > > YUCK! > > Java may have more books on the shelf right now, but I wouldn't even call > it the current top dog language wise... it still isn't much more than a > slightly better and less featureful C++ with really crummy standard > packages. There are plenty of better solutions that can be had with > Python or even just PERL or Tcl tying some C code together. Java, as a > language, offers no advantage at all for the serious OO projects being > done in Eiffel, Smalltalk or Ada. Plus, thanks to NeXT and WO/EOF/D'OLE, > Objective-C seems to be a big contender for Java's potential static > language market. And, hey, Objective-C is more dynamic than Java... even > as a static language! :-) > > Java has no real home... it's neither very dynamic nor a very good static > language. That is why its days are numbered. > > - Chris > > Ps - I've plugged Python twice in this post, but it is really worth > plugging: http://www.python.org and news:comp.lang.python to find out > more.