From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00, REPLYTO_WITHOUT_TO_CC autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Thread: 103376,763b126bf5276f4c X-Google-NewGroupId: yes X-Google-Attributes: gida07f3367d7,domainid0,public,usenet X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit Path: g2news2.google.com!news4.google.com!feeder1.cambriumusenet.nl!feed.tweaknews.nl!85.158.31.10.MISMATCH!newsfeed-0.progon.net!progon.net!uucp.gnuu.de!newsfeed.arcor.de!newsspool4.arcor-online.net!news.arcor.de.POSTED!not-for-mail From: "Dmitry A. Kazakov" Subject: Re: Communications of ACM: Sir, Please Step Away from the ASR-33! Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada User-Agent: 40tude_Dialog/2.0.15.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: mailbox@dmitry-kazakov.de Organization: cbb software GmbH References: <72b8fb96-2b5e-4ef8-8099-39361eeea853@glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com> <878vzbwa61.fsf@hugsarin.sparre-andersen.dk> Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2010 18:45:48 +0100 Message-ID: <2wdtj08oj266.110r9wczu0lfb.dlg@40tude.net> NNTP-Posting-Date: 27 Dec 2010 18:45:45 CET NNTP-Posting-Host: 70069404.newsspool2.arcor-online.net X-Trace: DXC=V\gG6`H?elIC4i^e1BZ=_HA9EHlD;3YcB4Fo<]lROoRA8kF On Mon, 27 Dec 2010 15:41:10 +0100, Jacob Sparre Andersen wrote: > Michael R wrote: > >> There's a note in November's Communications of the ACM titled "Sir, >> Please Step Away from the ASR-33!" with the sub-title "To move forward >> with programming languages we must first break free from the tyranny >> of ASCII". >> >> It's interesting that Ada has already stepped away from ASCII. Many of >> the test cases for my ZanyBlue.Text localization support library >> contain non-ASCII source, e.g., a test enumeration with identifiers >> containing Greek characters: > > This is definitely a small step in the right direction. But I don't > think it is anywhere as far at Poul-Henning Kamp would like it to go. I > have the impression that as long as our source files are only defined as > a sequence of characters, we aren't there yet. I'm a bit scared by the > thought of a source code being defined both at the file level (for > compatibility) and as a 2D (3D?) visual structure (for editing and > inspection). Historically syntax was understood as a spoken language concept. Biologically the only way spoken language can exist is as a sequence of elements, i.e. 1D. A machine language theoretically need not to be spoken. But practically nobody managed to come with anything universally usable at 2D level. I think the way our brain processes images excludes 2D representations. 3D is biologically excluded because our vision is basically 2D. There is a simple criterion to determine which syntax has future and which does not: the search engine test. Can you search for image content? You cannot, you can only for words describing images. There are many reasons why you cannot. I can name a mathematical one, 2D sets lack order. -- Regards, Dmitry A. Kazakov http://www.dmitry-kazakov.de