From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FREEMAIL_FROM autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Received: by 10.236.38.194 with SMTP id a42mr10630612yhb.4.1432303412379; Fri, 22 May 2015 07:03:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.140.100.136 with SMTP id s8mr122978qge.2.1432303412361; Fri, 22 May 2015 07:03:32 -0700 (PDT) Path: eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!mx02.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!feeder01.blueworldhosting.com!peer02.iad.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!z60no3212711qgd.1!news-out.google.com!k20ni44836qgd.0!nntp.google.com!z60no3213962qgd.0!postnews.google.com!glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Date: Fri, 22 May 2015 07:03:32 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Injection-Info: glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com; posting-host=105.237.112.50; posting-account=orbgeAkAAADzWCTlruxuX_Ts4lIq8C5J NNTP-Posting-Host: 105.237.112.50 References: <127b004d-2163-477b-9209-49d30d2da5e1@googlegroups.com> User-Agent: G2/1.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <2841629c-c21d-47d2-88fb-82da11243893@googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: Build language with weak typing, then add scaffolding later to strengthen it? From: jan.de.kruyf@gmail.com Injection-Date: Fri, 22 May 2015 14:03:32 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Received-Bytes: 3366 X-Received-Body-CRC: 4159952006 Xref: news.eternal-september.org comp.lang.ada:25943 Date: 2015-05-22T07:03:32-07:00 List-Id: Well, Here is my 2 cents worth: I learned to program in basic and assembler in the 70's. Then I dabbled a b= it in C and forgot quickly I ever did such a thing. All this until I found old Wirth's last creation: Oberon. I performed wonde= rs in that language, with just a post-mortem stackframe debugger, if you ca= n call it that. Strongly typed, concise, object oriented were I needed that, and expressive= enough to do everything that needs doing, for any size project. And to cap it all the latest RM is all of 17 pages.=20 Does that mean I have something against Ada? No not really, it is a very ni= ce and cosy work environment, I enjoy it. But I will surely enjoy the day w= hen the language lawyers learn to stop being logical and start to think, to= quote Niels Bohr. The simple fact that there is only 17 pages to learn off by hart makes a pe= rson that knows the trade extremely productive. And far fewer mistakes are = made as a result _because we know what we are doing_ and we are willing to = do it!. The same cannot be said for Ada. If I must count the hours searchin= g out how to do a thing in Ada, then it will not be very far of trying to f= igure out how to interface with C for instance. Please people if the basics are in place we do not need 1200 pages of ifs a= nd buts. It is nonsense. All it does is show that show that we have the money and the brain power to= carry on on the road chosen, just like has happened in any other language,= as was enumerated above in this thread. Again I do not mean to say I have something against Ada, I enjoy it. But I do say that old Dijkstra was right when he said that Ada was a mess. = We merely managed to make the mess managable enough since then, so we can w= ork and so that it is at least better than some of the other creations arou= nd. Do I mean to say that George and Randy and Dmitry and others are not workin= g hard and putting in lots of valuable time to make Ada better, off course = not. I am merely making a plea for lean and mean. Because I know it _works_= . Thank you j.