From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Received: by 10.107.175.131 with SMTP id p3mr10047195ioo.31.1521656342380; Wed, 21 Mar 2018 11:19:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a9d:29b8:: with SMTP id n53-v6mr1301825otb.11.1521656342257; Wed, 21 Mar 2018 11:19:02 -0700 (PDT) Path: eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!news.unit0.net!peer01.am4!peer.am4.highwinds-media.com!peer02.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!u184-v6no1686637ita.0!news-out.google.com!j10-v6ni1221ite.0!nntp.google.com!u184-v6no1686634ita.0!postnews.google.com!glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2018 11:19:02 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Injection-Info: glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com; posting-host=47.185.233.194; posting-account=zwxLlwoAAAChLBU7oraRzNDnqQYkYbpo NNTP-Posting-Host: 47.185.233.194 References: <9ed9edb1-3342-4644-89e8-9bcf404970ee@googlegroups.com> User-Agent: G2/1.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <26a1fe54-750c-45d7-9006-b6fecaa41176@googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: Ada-Oriented GUI From: "Dan'l Miller" Injection-Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2018 18:19:02 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Received-Body-CRC: 1737104999 X-Received-Bytes: 4258 Xref: reader02.eternal-september.org comp.lang.ada:51102 Date: 2018-03-21T11:19:02-07:00 List-Id: On Wednesday, March 21, 2018 at 12:43:04 PM UTC-5, Dmitry A. Kazakov wrote: > So it is inconsistent unless packed into single thread. No difference,=20 > exiting GUI do just same. Yes, it is customary (or required in most OSes/frameworks) for all UI pro= cessing to be in the same single thread. Even in Microsoft Windows' variou= s API/personality flavors, it is required for all UI processing within the = same window to be performed in the same single thread. From my reading of = Jeffrey Carter's description of his work, he was continuing this precedent = of all UI processing in a single thread, simply moving it off from the main= thread to some other single thread. > > Conversely, there is no order to preserve between different single-thre= aded senders. >=20 > Surely there is. Surely in the progress of time in reality, there is not. This asynchrony= is the basis of realtime systems. > The order is application level semantics. Then the application is maldesigned, not conforming to the asynchrony of = the various autonomous timelines in reality. > (This is a general problem of event-driven architectures. They are=20 > non-scalable, non-composable, unstructured and unmaintainable when=20 > become large). Rx is clearly chipping away at that increasingly obsolescent state of aff= airs. Please read the books. > > E.g., async filesystem I/O events can interleave GUI human-activity eve= nts can interleave application-lifecycle events can interleave network pack= et-arrival events arbitrarily and differently each execution. >=20 > I don't see how this is related to GUI design issues, It is unrelated to designing a GUI per se at Microsoft or at Apple or at Go= ogle. It is highly related to designing an =E2=80=A2application=E2=80=A2 t= hat is built atop that GUI infrastructure. > except that when=20 > file system I/O indirectly cause GUI events. Then ordering of the events= =20 > (output-pending, output-complete) must evidently be preserved when used= =20 > in a progress indicator. So you don't see that all permutations of unavoidable race conditions in di= sparate topics (that naturally occur in reality before a software design ev= er existed) need to be sanely handled a posteriori in a nonpanicky methodic= al disciplined-structure way. Apparently, you think that all race conditio= ns from every nook & cranny of every corner of reality can somehow be defin= ed away a priori by some sort of superdooper clever design. Well, more pow= er to you then, because you can show all those Rx folks where their entire = worldview is horribly wrong from the git-go. We look forward to seeing tha= t superdooper clever a priori design that shows all the aficionados of a po= steriori where they went awry.