From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Thread: 103376,b95a522100671708 X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit Path: g2news1.google.com!news2.google.com!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail From: "Dmitry A. Kazakov" Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Subject: Re: For the AdaOS folks Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 10:59:45 +0100 Organization: cbb software GmbH Message-ID: <24hf82mgtexu$.c07xlxejxm1c$.dlg@40tude.net> References: <1PTAd.1218$0y4.421@read1.cgocable.net> <1vemlj8wqr9ea$.qyecszhsmtqa$.dlg@40tude.net> <1b48kdfqsk3mw.7gajq12fsa82.dlg@40tude.net> <52fBd.42256$nV.1324414@news20.bellglobal.com> <_gHBd.14666$0y4.10314@read1.cgocable.net> <8rz51zshvp8k$.gvir0kpiedzk.dlg@40tude.net> <1cza5d5x7snmd.lr7wfm9fdsvd.dlg@40tude.net> <1hwsfqc0hx63i$.1dl0hkengaf6i$.dlg@40tude.net> <1klgtuv6sbypt.1wlc9u1ixz7ua$.dlg@40tude.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: individual.net UzRPTA0zx6HoSr0nsrsvtQqZdllefpzjLKEIRbV/juqsrdaLs= User-Agent: 40tude_Dialog/2.0.12.1 Xref: g2news1.google.com comp.lang.ada:7422 Date: 2005-01-04T10:59:45+01:00 List-Id: On Mon, 03 Jan 2005 15:44:17 -0500, Warren W. Gay VE3WWG wrote: > Dmitry A. Kazakov wrote: >> >> But in our hypothetical OS each possible way of access will be represented >> by some safe system object. These objects, when properly designed will >> provide necessary administrative services. > > If you are a night watchman for a Mall, which situation makes it > easier to sleep at night when you've locked up and gone home? > > 1. A mall with one or two doors on the outside to be > locked and checked. > 2. A mall with thousands of doors on the outside to be > locked and checked. > > The answer is obvious. Sure, it is ok for other doors to exist > inside the mall (for each store), which can be locked, but it > only makes sense to choke the security at a minimal number > of points. But you can approach the problem in other ways. You could change people to make impossible for somebody to steal. You could make objects unusable when stolen etc. >> Do you have one "gate" for hard drive I/O? > > Yes, actually. The kernel controls the issuing of the IDE > commands, so that no process can permanently destroy the > IDE drive (which can be done, if certain commands are issued). > Not to mention that partition scope(s) must be enforced. It is no different from handling TCP/IP sockets. So the problem lies elsewhere above. Anybody may try to open a file. > File systems mitigate access to the thousands of objects > that exist within the file system. In a hierarchical system > of directories, you have upper levels of choke points (in > parent directories), as well as the ability to control > access on the object itself. Yes, that is the point. Files are primitive, but objects. It is much easier to enforce security in a hierarchical system than in a flat sea of unstructured data. >> Do you need a firewall to tunnel open/close/read/write to floppy >> drives? It would be nonsense. > > Maybe its not your floppy. Maybe it belongs to > another user (perhaps a student/coworker/spouse). But how a tunnel might help with that? It does not know who is the owner. >> The problem is that network protocols do not >> have safety of a file system. > > A file system is confined. Come on, there were multi-user OSes before Windows. Even UNIX pretended to be one. > A network is exposed by > definition. That is the element that makes network > security so difficult. It has very little to do > with which came first. > >>>Even at home, there is much more safety in doing things this way. >> >> It an imaginary safety. > > Not at all. While it is not the entire answer to network > security, you court disaster without one. You will not find > one network security expert to suggest what you are promoting. Sure, why should they kill a hen carrying the gold eggs? (:-)) Did you ever hear from any company selling anti-virus software that the only problem with viruses is OS? -- Regards, Dmitry A. Kazakov http://www.dmitry-kazakov.de