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Date: 18 Jun 93 17:11:46 GMT
From: agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!network.ucsd.edu!mvb.saic.com!dayton.saic.com!data.a
ar.wpafb.af.mil!Hopper@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU  (James Hopper)
Subject: Re: Defending Greg
Message-ID: <1vst0i$qps@dayub.dayton.saic.com>
List-Id: <comp.lang.ada>

Greg,.

I hire consultants from time to time to help me on my projects,
i have never ever been told that upper managment frowns on it.
what is important to note about SAIC is that it is an
entrepenurial company where most of the divisions etc are run
in many ways like a collection of small buisnesses.  there
are corporate guidance and some refereeing, but we in dayton
for instance have considerable freedom, and i guarantee that
we pay no attention to the kind of guidance you accuse saic of
providing its offices.  I am sorry that you were unsuccessfull
in working with saic, but in saic it is hardly corporate policy
that is the problem.  I am not suggesting you be mr goody two
shoes, but you might consider moderating the level of some of
your comments.  Expressions of frustration help nothing, they
are simply ignored, even if they do make you feel better in the
long run they hurt your cause far more than they help!  Insulting
people who work on defense projects and demanding proof from each of us
that we don't rip the gov't off simply make you seem yet another
emotional flammer.  

Yes there is considerable waste in gov't and the Ada sw world 
is hardly an exception.  But in my experience the problem with
cost overruns lies more in the requirements domain than in the
implementation domain.  I co-authored a 30 hour internal course
for SAIC on SW requirements and i can tell you that the feedback
we have gotten from around the company while teaching it agrees
with this whole heartedly.  Most projects founder on inadequate/
incomplete/impossible requirements, not on implementation problems
like which language you use.  Ada does help in providing a
consistent framework to build upon, but language is in my
opionion a second order effect, and until we get the main drivers
of cost overruns under control worrying about ada mandate
inefficencies is a waste of valuable time. The problem is not
greedy unscrupulous people (or at least not most of it) its people
who are working hard to implement a system on a foundation built
on quicksand! 

However, if you do want to talk second order effects i will defend
the mandate as one who predates it. I can well remember learning
one new assembly or HOL after another for each project and i got to
tell you that was a waste!  Now at least i can concentrate on gettting
better each time, instead of learning yet another language!

I guess in summary, i would like to ask you to think about 
limiting your discussions to facts and stop the personal attacks
on those of us who work in the defense industry.  For every
individual you can point to who is "Wallowing at the trough" i can
point at 10 who are working very hard at what they do!  I know our
staff works very hard, and even when we have cost plus contracts (which
is mostly) we work long hours of uncompensated overtime to get our
work done on time and budget!

   jim