From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FREEMAIL_FROM autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 103376,88ed72d98e6b3457 X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-ArrivalTime: 2003-11-03 17:51:02 PST Path: archiver1.google.com!news2.google.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!small1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!border3.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!intern1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp.comcast.com!news.comcast.com.POSTED!not-for-mail NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 19:51:00 -0600 Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 20:50:59 -0500 From: "Robert I. Eachus" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Subject: Re: Standard Library Interest? References: <_Qnpb.67353$mZ5.428086@attbi_s54> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <1KednRiIvK2ZmzqiRVn-jA@comcast.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.34.214.193 X-Trace: sv3-HOQio666/p3rpEg8d/atl6xhbEYhFIpZepGere+l3JXnyQLk6MR1PX3TZJUX+lo/MNA5bfUUv30pkZK!y7Q6Cbymh7pNRwfYD12A+KijpxXt9caxIC/ooNv9l7VIR0akeVS9H/5cWmtoFg== X-Complaints-To: abuse@comcast.net X-DMCA-Complaints-To: dmca@comcast.net X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.1 Xref: archiver1.google.com comp.lang.ada:2018 Date: 2003-11-03T20:50:59-05:00 List-Id: Alexandre E. Kopilovitch wrote: >>Yes, most good software engineers learned most of what they know from a >>few good mentors (and I bless those that mentored me) and it would be >>nice if it were a little more formal. > > > I think I pointed at the same direction when I said about curriculum. > And a guild of software engineers seems to be a move in opposite direction. I obviously disagree. If you have a guild, and in this country, the AMA for physicians is exactly that, it has a great deal of power. But the philosophy and organization of a guild determines what that power is, and how it is used. IMHO, a guild of software engineers would be like trying to herd cats if you tried to say, mandate a particular programming language. But if the guild used its power to insist that safety critical software be certified as trustworthy by a guild journeyman or master, I think that no real software engineer would have a problem with that. Right now professional engineers sign off on blueprints for large construction projects the same way. We can argue fine lines about whether a guild is a better professional approach for software engineering or not. I think it is. I think that for programmers, the engineering model of educational programs and a professional society might be better when programming becomes a profession. But for programmers, that is nowhere near to happening. As for software engineering, in one sense a professional organization is overdue. But efforts to base such a professional organization on academic credentials have failed when tried. I think a guild would work. More important, I would think that journeymen would have a "journey work" that was free software--in other words, open to inspection by anyone--and a master work would be done the same way. That way, I doubt that there would be any questions about whether or not someone really was a journeyman or master. If you have doubts, look at the work posted on his website. (Yes, someone could do work that was masterwork quality, but was classified or company proprietary. Not a problem. If they want to be a recognized journeyman or master, they would have to post other work to be judged.) -- Robert I. Eachus 100% Ada, no bugs--the only way to create software.