From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 109fba,dfe676902ab402fc,start X-Google-Attributes: gid109fba,public X-Google-Thread: 10db24,dfe676902ab402fc,start X-Google-Attributes: gid10db24,public X-Google-Thread: 114809,dfe676902ab402fc,start X-Google-Attributes: gid114809,public X-Google-Thread: 103376,dfe676902ab402fc,start X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-Thread: f79bb,dfe676902ab402fc,start X-Google-Attributes: gidf79bb,public X-Google-Thread: 1108a1,dfe676902ab402fc,start X-Google-Attributes: gid1108a1,public X-Google-Thread: fc838,dfe676902ab402fc,start X-Google-Attributes: gidfc838,public X-Google-Thread: fac41,dfe676902ab402fc,start X-Google-Attributes: gidfac41,public From: nobody@huge.cajones.com (Huge Cajones Remailer) Subject: Fake scientist Bertrand Meyer (puke) exposed at http://WWW.NETSCUM.NET/meyerb0.html Date: 1997/05/25 Message-ID: <199705251904.MAA32097@fat.doobie.com> X-Deja-AN: 243859708 Organization: mail2news@nym.alias.net Mail-To-News-Contact: postmaster@nym.alias.net Comments: Please report misuse of this automated remailing service to Newsgroups: alt.flame.bertrand-meyer,comp.lang.eiffel,comp.lang.c++,comp.object,comp.edu,comp.lang.sather,comp.lang.smalltalk,comp.lang.ada,comp.programming,comp.databases.object,comp.lang.lisp Date: 1997-05-25T00:00:00+00:00 List-Id: Fake scientist Bertrand Meyer (puke) exposed at http://WWW.NETSCUM.NET/meyerb0.html Bertrand Meyer, bertrand@eiffel.com, Fake scientist By way of Meyer's computer book which came out in the late 80's, Meyer claims to be the father of object oriented technology. But the book contains many ideas PLAGIARIZED by Meyer from academics at Stanford University and at universities in France, from where Meyer came. Meyer is known for his "SELF-DISCIPLINE: Towards better News Discussion" piece with the [zz] applet (zz means sleep) which plagiarizes the "Usenet Pledge" (for not inhaling). Meyer runs a mom-pop operation with his wife, a French virago, as former employees describe it. The office location sprawls across many tiny rooms connected by loose, filthy, bunching wall to wall carpeting, and Meyer's office is dominated by an overstuffed leather couch on which Meyer sleeps. Meyer makes good use of ignorant/young/foreign employees so he does not have to pay them much. Most are from Australia or are teenagers from the local area. Software development is really all done in C because Eiffel outputs C. The company logo is a series of overlaid (bad pun) stars of david which look like a cross between a Hindu mantra design and a horoscope chart. Meyer's business practices are typified by his marketing manager, Ms D. Harrison, whose main job is to sign disclosure agreements with their customers in order to find out what the customers really are doing and then to steal the idea. USA and non USA customers have been taken by the sting. Meyer's software products do not work as advertized and are buggy, which is funny because he attacks other languages such as C and C++ for the same reason, even though his products are all written ultimately in C. Meyer hates SmallTalk and the other Eiffel vendors for having faster compilers. Meyer also runs small, object oriented conferences with vegetarian menus hokey cocktail parties in the US, Europe, and Australia, which give him the opportunity to travel for free to far away places. Meyer's other hobby is drinking. At one overseas, when Meyer was late for an opening ceremony, one of the invited guests stated that Meyer's absence could only be explained because he was still drunk from the night before. At another conference, Meyer hosted a drinking party in the facility lounge. The bar maid went crazy trying to find out who owned the tab because the party was so drunken that they just got up, ticket-walked, and left the facility. All these events can be substantiated by at least three of Meyer's employees. Don't bother to complain about Meyer -- he thinks he is a god. Said on the 'net about Meyer: From: Ian Johnston Newsgroups: comp.lang.eiffel Subject: Re: GC performance (was Performance Comparison C++/Eiffel) Message-ID: <53ai4d$mb2@ubszh.fh.zh.ubs.com> Bertrand Meyer wrote: > > Ian Johnston writes in reply to Paul Johnson: > > > The (as yet unsubstantiated) figures actually refute your argument. > > A real gem. Person A makes a statement and says that it is almost impossible to produce figures to back up this statement. Person B quotes some as yet unsubstantiated figures that, if substantiated, would refute person A's argument. Person C considers this a "real gem". Marvellous intellectual discussion here. Ian A contributor wishing to remain anonymous said: "The office location (cheap rent over Rusty's Pizza Parlor) sprawls across many tiny rooms connected by loose, filthy, bunching wall to wall carpeting, and Meyer's office is dominated by an overstuffed leather couch on which Meyer sleeps." I've been there. I also have been effectively "screwed over" by Meyer. My personal evaluation: a ... language designer, a lousy businessman, and a miserable excuse for a human being. Bertrand Meyer said the following about his page: I am characterized on his page as "a disgrace to the Hebrew race". I am indeed of Jewish origin although this is not the kind of thing I talk about much, especially in a professional context. My name alone is no good indication (Meyer is a Jewish name but it is much more common as a non-Jewish German name, from a word meaning ``tenant farmer''). I don't see why it is anyone's business to publish that I am Jewish (or any other ethnic origin for that matter). I take this as a pure racist remark, reminiscent of the worst hours of history. Other people on the list share the honor of antisemitic remarks. Someone (or someone's boss) is described as a "Fat Jewish Boy", someone else as having a "very Jewish-sounding name" etc. What's next? Kristallnacht? Since at least two people have suggested listing precise evidence of defamation, here are two from the very long entry concerning me: The entry states that for my book(s) I plagiarized people from Stanford University and academics from France. (Whom exactly I am supposed to have plagiarized the entry does not say.) Since my books are one of the principal sources of any reputation I may have, this is if believed, highly damaging. I am supposed to be a drunkard, a claim backed by the tale of two imaginary incidents at some conference abroad. This is highly damaging to my character assessment and professional reputation (especially since these invented incidents are supposed to have occurred in a professional setting). These absurd allegations are of course without any truth, like the rest of the slander on the page. In my opinion the real problem at this stage is the presence of an ISP who (how can I say it nicely?) does not seem too friendly. I am willing to join Grady Booch's action if - as seems to be the case - there is no other way. When BM drinks too much wine he whines about his virago spouse, about the brown cloud caused by his subnormal, vegetarian rate of metabolism, about his obcessive and repressed guilt with the Holocaust (with which he had nothing to do), about his business impotency in the Java world, and about his inability to bring threatened legal action to fruition as his article states. BM is in short a BM -- that stinking turd floating in the punch bowl of the ILK fraternity, "I Licktafrench Kunt." Path: altavista!news1.digital.com!data.ramona.vix.com!sonysjc!su-news-feed4.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-200.sprintlink.net!news.rain.org!not-for-mail From: Bertrand Meyer Newsgroups: comp.lang.eiffel,comp.object,comp.lang.c++,comp.lang.ada Subject: Re: We need a moderated comp.lang.eiffel Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 19:06:39 -0800 Organization: Interactive Software Engineering Inc. Lines: 114 Message-ID: <333F2A3F.3F784554@eiffel.com> References: <5hmiko$quq@muller.loria.fr> <19970331010501.UAA28090@ladder01.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: outback.eiffel.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.3 sun4c) This is a posting with no technical content, and as much a waste of the writer's time as it is of the reader's. Unfortunately it appears necessary. Although Bruce Mount's original only went to comp.lang.eiffel I am cross-posting this to some of the other groups on which some of the recent heap of insults was posted. Bruce Mount wrote (in response to a message that I haven't seen yet, so I don't know who "Dominique" is): > Dominique: > > >>I really think that we need a moderated Eiffel newsgroup in > >>addition of comp.lang.eiffel (it becomes more and more > >>difficult to work with comp.lang.eiffel). > > Although I agree that comp.lang.eiffel has been full of noise lately I > still feel that it is better targeted than most newsgroups. Yes. > If we have a moderated c.l.e then I will just end up reading both > newsgroups and I doubt it would really save me time at that point. > > Nevertheless, my feeling on this issue are not cast in stone Same here, for both comments. > and I am open to debate on the subject. Yes but let's be careful. If we open the floodgates we give the crazies (or the crazy, there is no evidence of more than one) what they are trying to achieve: the destruction of comp.lang.eiffel and other technical newsgroups by a deluge of meta-level discussions. > I am greatly saddened by the juvenile personal attacks by the fake Kibo, > but those as best dealt with by slander lawsuits and complaints to their > ISP. This is the point. There have been some strong arguments recently, with people shouting, in my opinion, too angrily (especially on issues for which, the disagreement, if you look beyond the rhetoric, was not that big). Personally I have been called "ridiculous" and incompetent a few times. It's not too pleasant but it's probably part of life when you hold strong opinions and do not hesitate to defend them. However the "Kibo" thing is another matter. I regret to have to use Usenet bandwidth to comment on it - and I hope that others will show some moderation, again because if we don't we give the guy exactly what he wants: the destruction of perfectly sound technical newsgroups. However I think that I must say something here because I am the one who has been most rudely and libelously insulted, together with my company, its products and my technical achievements. Other people viciously attacked by the same person (apparently - he courageously uses an anonymous account,so we can't know for sure) include Robert Dewar and Grady Booch. (As part of his viciousness the guy also has a particular propensity to include obscene comments on people's wives.) That it is an honor to share the spotlight with such prestigious and respected computer scientists is meagre consolation. This goes with a Web page - resurfacing after it was removed a few months ago following public outrage - that characterizes in the most insulting terms a number of people, apparently chosen only because they occasionally express technical opinions on Usenet. The focus is particularly on sexual insults and antisemitism, with characterizations of people as "that fat Jewish boy", "an insult to the Hebrew race" and the like. And there is an Internet provider who apparently finds it quite all right to host such hate mongering. Have people not learned anything? Do they need a refresher in 20-th century history? One reaction - essentially everyone's so far - is (as suggested by Jeffrey Stulin a week or so ago) to ignore the poor guy. Let him drown in his own bile. However this may not in the end be the right policy. Although no one in his right mind would give any credence to these demented anonymous rantings, the result of their accumulation is to turn off people from the newsgroups. All this has a very precise name: it's fascism. Use intimidation to occupy the streets, bully everyone into silence, trigger the forces of destruction. (And of course don't forget anti-semitism, hatred of those with different sexual mores, of foreigners etc.) The good news is that apparently this concerns just one person. If you feel that one person should not be permitted to perform character assassinations and undermine a whole medium of technical discussion, please be thoughtful about your responses (for one thing, e-mail may be better than News). Any suggestion as how to get rid of the brown plague (against, without introducing a cure worse than the disease, e.g. flooding these newsgroups with non-technical postings) will be gratefully appreciated. I apologize again for the present non-technical posting, but it seems that there was no other choice. Regardless of all other actions that may be taken, part of the answer is - as suggested implicitly by Jeffrey Stulin, Bruce Mount and others to continue having reasoned and instructive discussions (including fighting each other technically when we disagree), and not let ourselves be bullied into resignation. Now I'll get back to my work. (For anyone interested please see following posting about the Eiffel-Java interface.) -- Bertrand Meyer, President, ISE Inc., Santa Barbara (California) 805-685-1006, fax 805-685-6869, - ftp://ftp.eiffel.com Visit our Web page: http://www.eiffel.com (including instructions to download Eiffel 4 for Windows)