From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,INVALID_MSGID autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 109fba,baaf5f793d03d420 X-Google-Attributes: gid109fba,public X-Google-Thread: fc89c,97188312486d4578 X-Google-Attributes: gidfc89c,public X-Google-Thread: 1014db,6154de2e240de72a X-Google-Attributes: gid1014db,public X-Google-Thread: 103376,97188312486d4578 X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public From: anh@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu (TRAN PHAN ANH) Subject: Re: Should I learn C or Pascal? Date: 1996/07/24 Message-ID: <1996Jul24.164539.123002@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu>#1/1 X-Deja-AN: 169955784 references: <4t5ebb$hp3@nntp.seflin.lib.fl.us> organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services followup-to: comp.lang.c,comp.lang.c++,comp.unix.programmer,comp.dos.programmer,comp.lang.ada newsgroups: comp.lang.c,comp.lang.c++,comp.unix.programmer,comp.lang.ada Date: 1996-07-24T00:00:00+00:00 List-Id: Allow me to round off this thread. You don't need to start with lots of parentheses, or Pascal to learn problem solving. And you don't screw up your learning ability if you start off with C or machine code. Heck, I wonder if turning switches made Knuth a worse Computer Scientist than what he is? :-)) Anyway, reality check, 2 students looking for an internship or a part-time job, which requires programming. All things being equal, one with a working knowledge of C/C++, and one with a working knowledge of parantheses, who gets the job (most of the times)? By the time they graduate, both will have covered the same material. But one will have EXPERIENCE to put on the resume. If one has the desire, and an open mind...anything can be learned. On the other hand, if one thinks that what one knows is enough, be it lisp, basic, scheme, C, or anything, one will never learn new things. That's given by definition. Anh In article <4t5ebb$hp3@nntp.seflin.lib.fl.us>, z007400b@bcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us (Ralph Silverman) writes: > Darin Johnson (djohnson@tartarus.ucsd.edu) wrote: > : > A sizeable portion of the class, > : > however, whined because they talked to "big, smart people in the real > : > world" who told them they were wasting their time, no one uses Scheme, > : > it's a stupid language, you can't do XYZ like you can in C or > : > whatever, man, universities are stupid, this country is fucked up > : > blablabla. > > : Unfortunately, this group exists regardless of what you teach or how. > : I've TA'd and proctored a variety of classes (programming and > : architecture), and you don't get away from them. And it's not just > : that they want the university to be a trade school either, I had > : people in '81 (back when you had to know a variety of things and be > : able to adapt in order to program) and they were complaining about why > : they should learn Pascal since they already knew BASIC and didn't need > : this intro to programming class. They didn't do that well in the > : class however. Had a student complain about why he should learn how > : compiler work since we already have a good C compiler. And of course, > : plenty were upset that they had to learn about the eniac or > : computability or PDA's or what-not. > > : Of course, IMHO, I think the solution would be to take the military > : route. Don't reason with the students, make them do laps or pushups > : instead. Call them names and insult their mothers when they claim to > : be smarter than you. Get rid of all their preconceived notions in > : boot camp so they can actually learn something later on. (what, do > : students actually say "only wussies use Pascal in the real world" at > : West Point?). > > : The old saying goes, "he can write Fortran in any language". Which is > : just a way of saying that you can present a programmer with any > : language you want, but if they can't program well you won't get a good > : program at the end. > : -- > : Darin Johnson > : djohnson@ucsd.edu O- > : Gravity is a harsh mistress - The Tick > > -- > *************begin r.s. response***************** > > (re. '...military style...' > in posting cited above) > > who will watch the watchers? > > ... > a teacher who can not hold the interest > of the students in this area without > resort to draconian measures may be > the problem!!! > > > (re. '...Don't reason with the students...' > in the posting cited above) > > this is a pretty pass!!! > if we can not reason about > computer programming!!! > > *************end r.s. response******************* > Ralph Silverman > z007400b@bcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us >