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From: jgg@evb.com (John Goodsen)
Subject: Re: Ichibah flames, and flames out over, Ada 9X
Message-ID: <1993Mar10.201515.6295@evb.com>
Organization: EVB Software Engineering, Inc.
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1993 20:15:15 GMT
Date: 1993-03-10T20:15:15+00:00
List-Id: <comp.lang.ada>

stt@spock.camb.inmet.com (Tucker Taft) writes:

>srctran@world.std.com (Gregory Aharonian) writes:
>> . . .From this point of view, the original posting's
>>call for more features in Ada9X that allows better competition with C++
>>(and Smalltalk) should be heeded.
>
>There are many ways to skin a cat.  In many cases, imitation is not
>the most effective strategy.  Why choose Ada 9X if it makes the same
>mistakes that C++ does?  

Which is hardly what I was proposing.  Are you saying that classes
are a mistake in C++ ?  I would hope that the real message of 
the original posting was received as:

  Object Oriented Analysis and Design approaches (most of them
  and certainly the mainstream) use class based approaches.  
  When a software engineer performs OOA and/or OOD, it is going
  to be quite natural to look for an implementation language
  which *has class*.  If you don't make it easy for someone on
  the language search to see that Ada supports the concept of
  "class", then the acceptance of the language for OO development
  will not meet it's true potential.

I have heard the arguments on why tagged types are *better* than
classes, and for the most part agree with them.  This is not a
technical issue.  It's a market acceptance issue.  If the solution
is to change the syntax from "tagged type" to "class" and leave
it at that, then it doesn't sound like too much of a problem and
I will predict that the commercial payoff will be worth the minor
syntactical change.  

I know what you're thinking:  "But, if we change 'tagged type'
syntax to 'class' syntax, it won't be a class in the same
terms as other languages!"  Great!  If you want to introduce the
world to a better object oriented programming mechanism, then
at least speak to the world in their language.  The language
that people will understand is "class", not "tagged type".

A class in CLOS, smalltalk and C++ are not identical already.
The argument that if Ada uses the word "class" then it has
to be exactly like C++'s implementation of a class doesn't
hold water.  Don't let a C++ vs. Ada bias affect this "CLASS"
syntax issue.  It will seriously hinder new market acceptance of
Ada as an OOP language.

>
>We should learn from the strengths and
>weaknesses of other languages, and advance the state of the art, 
>not solidify it around a 1985-vintage design.
>

So is it safe to assume that 9x tagged types are considered
as "advancing the state of the art" by the Ada 9X project or
wasn't the syntax terminology introduced to remain consistent
with the Ada 83 "state of the art".

A serious question, really :-)

-- 
John Goodsen
Software Process & Environments
EVB Software Engineering
jgg@evb.com