From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FREEMAIL_FROM autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Received: by 10.50.92.67 with SMTP id ck3mr35203739igb.5.1427455521159; Fri, 27 Mar 2015 04:25:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.140.89.178 with SMTP id v47mr23640qgd.19.1427455521123; Fri, 27 Mar 2015 04:25:21 -0700 (PDT) Path: eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!mx02.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!feeds.phibee-telecom.net!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed2.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!newspeer1.nac.net!border2.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!z20no339156igj.0!news-out.google.com!q90ni531qgd.1!nntp.google.com!h3no5153669qgf.1!postnews.google.com!glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2015 04:25:21 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <19qfgu5pjszm5.s5y5u8r0zx8k.dlg@40tude.net> Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Injection-Info: glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com; posting-host=212.99.10.164; posting-account=ku4DIwoAAACRt0A2H-srh5aOk_YodLAH NNTP-Posting-Host: 212.99.10.164 References: <59ac455c-72f6-43e2-8a79-efc0f3e16d9a@googlegroups.com> <19qfgu5pjszm5.s5y5u8r0zx8k.dlg@40tude.net> User-Agent: G2/1.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <161a69af-a392-4214-bd92-0e20e7522cca@googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: Languages don't matter. A mathematical refutation From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jean_Fran=E7ois_Martinez?= Injection-Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2015 11:25:21 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Xref: news.eternal-september.org comp.lang.ada:25285 Date: 2015-03-27T04:25:21-07:00 List-Id: On Thursday, March 26, 2015 at 4:21:45 PM UTC+1, Dmitry A. Kazakov wrote: > On Thu, 26 Mar 2015 06:43:01 -0700 (PDT), Maciej Sobczak wrote: >=20 > > Unless you prove that this had no influence on the results in question,= I > > refute the whole of your mathematical proof. >=20 > Yep, when *mathematical* statistics is used, then the burden of showing i= t > applicable lies on the author's shoulders. In particular, the software > metric used for some SW design must be shown to be a random variable. The > elementary outcomes presented. Their independence explained etc. >=20 > > But more seriously, it would be interesting to flip languages every yea= r > > and see whether the advantages of Ada hold in terms of better results. = Or > > run two classes in parallel (with random assignments of students to eac= h > > class) and compare results over the years. >=20 > I doubt the process of random selection of a developing team from a pool = of > "indistinguishable" teams were a good basis for a statistical model of > software development. >=20 > The bottom line: statistic were applied incorrectly and the results > obtained carry no prediction power. >=20 Really? Text books on statistics are choke a full of similar examples and = exercises like comparing the proportion of defective products at manufactin= g plant A and B then checking the null hypothesis before deciding that A's = products are better. In our case we have a random variable and that is gr= oup=20 quality. This depends on quality of students but also on group dynamics. And it is common in this field to assume taht your population is a sample of an infinitely-sized conceptual population. Anyway I submitted the mathe= matical aspects to a professional statistician and he saw no flaw to my mathodology. In fact he told me that similar methodologoies were used for= =20 ensuring fairness at the competitive exam for French engineer schools (ie a= voiding a candidate being rejected because he had the misfortune of=20 getting a tough examinator). Then we leave the matermatical aspect of statistics and enter in the world = of=20 applied statistics like in the studies published by your friendly bureau of statistics ,or whatever it is named in Germany or Russia, where a= fter having established that the difference is significative ie rejecting t= he null hypothesis the statistician has to apply knowledge of the subject i= nvestigated (economics, scholar system, biology) and consider if there are = other factors that could have influenced. That is why for instance I was c= areful to note that students were of the same university: if C students ha= d been of University of Northern Iowa and Ada students from MIT, Standford = or similar universities whose students have far higher SAT scores then that= factor could have been the cause. At this point a statistician would do fu= rther studies in order to isolate its influence. I admit there are points = I did not consider (Ada students being of newer genetrations that had got p= re-university experience) and others I did not discuss because investigatin= g them would need to bother professor McCormick.=20 > (Nonetheless, we know that Ada is a better language, anyway...) >=20 It is not that we know. It is. :-) But there are people who would be unmo= ved even if we could present them the kind of study I dream of with severa= l universities, alternating C and Ada in order to elminate the generation e= ffect, first and last year students in order to eiiminate the slow learnng = curve and so on=20 Regards Jean-Fran=E7ois Martinez