From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.5-pre1 (2020-06-20) on ip-172-31-74-118.ec2.internal X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_50,MSGID_SHORT autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.5-pre1 Date: 9 Jul 91 21:27:41 GMT From: cis.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wu archive!rex!uflorida!screamer!stelmack@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Gregory M. Stelmac k) Subject: Re: Software Engineering Education Message-ID: <1505@screamer.csee.usf.edu> List-Id: OK, I'm in on this too, with two points to make: 1) As far as general distribution classes go, if you want a programming degree without them there are lots of by-mail companies that offer degrees, as well as lots of Institutes (ITT Technical Institute is one we always see advertised here in Florida) that will give you training in computer programming without all the excess. Universities are educational institutions trying to turn out educated people. If I had it to do over again (even though I'm not quite done yet), I would still want to take all those "extras" just for the information. Besides, how do you know what kinds of programs you want to write if you don't have any idea about other fields? A good deal of computer programming is for non-computer areas (MIS, for one...). Without a background in that area, how can you really program for it? 2) Teaching Software Engineering Concepts in classes: I think the greatest hindrance to this is that students are taking several classes at once, and many are working to help pay for school (me, for one). Students simply don't have the time to do the kind of major projects that allow the teaching and experience of what has been called "macro-SE" here. One way that USF does get this to some students is by allowing some undergraduates to get in on research projects. In this way, the undergraduate gets a part-time job working in with other programmers, an experience that naturally teaches much about SE (as well as a good deal about whatever the research project is on). Maybe if more of these kinds of positions were offered, more undergraduates will get that experience. But, if an undergraduate has to work a non-computer job, that student will be scrimping for time, and is forced to throw a program together in a few hours for a class to get it in on time. But, the "micro-SE" is fairly easy to integrate into classes, and has been in every class I've taken so far. -- Greg Stelmack (stelmack@sol.csee.usf.edu) D D D D D projects.