From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Received: by 2002:a24:6994:: with SMTP id e142-v6mr5487537itc.22.1521815114926; Fri, 23 Mar 2018 07:25:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a9d:ba5:: with SMTP id 34-v6mr1680023oth.7.1521815114218; Fri, 23 Mar 2018 07:25:14 -0700 (PDT) Path: eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!news.unit0.net!peer01.am4!peer.am4.highwinds-media.com!peer01.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!199-v6no715053itl.0!news-out.google.com!j10-v6ni664ite.0!nntp.google.com!u184-v6no712919ita.0!postnews.google.com!glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2018 07:25:13 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <2624e271-85d1-4753-8a70-47733d36b4b2@googlegroups.com> Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Injection-Info: glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com; posting-host=47.185.233.194; posting-account=zwxLlwoAAAChLBU7oraRzNDnqQYkYbpo NNTP-Posting-Host: 47.185.233.194 References: <7eaadf74-c55f-4c00-8f13-bf027cce130e@googlegroups.com> <6188b81f-7d6a-4ea4-90d4-74142471d979@googlegroups.com> <66082e27-14ca-45d1-b8ff-7fe825cd2687@googlegroups.com> <17b6ac53-6b99-430e-8bac-63311ea1fffe@googlegroups.com> <2b114d79-3af8-4285-b645-e2ea6b83331a@googlegroups.com> <2108cec0-fcb7-4b9e-b68c-15dc274d85e1@googlegroups.com> <131606956.543351411.509161.laguest-archeia.com@nntp.aioe.org> <8cd36360-51bb-4d7b-b823-afd244a83344@googlegroups.com> <1220246767.543424591.870799.laguest-archeia.com@nntp.aioe.org> <82e2a3ff-b7e8-42b2-9dc7-84c0910ca184@googlegroups.com> <1720809648.543445951.620902.laguest-archeia.com@nntp.aioe.org> <1485479787.543449660.880348.laguest-archeia.com@nntp.aioe.org> <7a8e40b3-7100-4bb2-a6a7-a3b1d4d59b94@googlegroups.com> <6fcbdb10-3d5c-4a54-b75c-157b9ed9a093@googlegroups.com> <251782d7-d40b-422e-801a-3670b6da8e1b@googlegroups.com> <2624e271-85d1-4753-8a70-47733d36b4b2@googlegroups.com> User-Agent: G2/1.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <11a9ef2e-2b91-46d0-98aa-8ad9c617f790@googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: LLVM and Ada From: "Dan'l Miller" Injection-Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2018 14:25:14 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Received-Body-CRC: 1906624961 X-Received-Bytes: 4754 Xref: reader02.eternal-september.org comp.lang.ada:51171 Date: 2018-03-23T07:25:13-07:00 List-Id: On Friday, March 23, 2018 at 12:10:21 AM UTC-5, Bojan Bozovic wrote: > Maybe this isn't really a place for this question, but why so important t= hing like Fortran and Ada for LLVM > fell on the shoulders of a single developer, why there's no involvement b= oth from LLVM and GCC > community? Well, it is not exactly a single developer acting as an Ayn-Rand/Aristotlea= n Prime Mover lone-wolf. https://www.llnl.gov/news/nnsa-national-labs-team-nvidia-develop-open-sourc= e-fortran-compiler-technology It appears that IBM & NVIDIA are stoking the fires at government research= organizations that buy their exascale OpenPOWER equipment that is based on= POWER ISA cores for general-purpose computing and NVIDIA GPU cores for num= erical processing. The NSF & Naval Research Office & the national labs have all been issuing g= rant money for various LLVM projects for some time. For example, ALLVM's = =E2=80=9CLLVM All the Things=E2=80=9D mantra at UIUC who originated LLVM, e= specially its People & Funding tab: https://publish.illinois.edu/allvm-project Note that official Flang (as derived from NVIDIA's PGI Fortran compiler for= GPUs) views itself as separate from =E2=80=9Ccommunity=E2=80=9D efforts to= bring Fortran to LLVM, even though those =E2=80=9Ccommunity=E2=80=9D effor= ts also use the Flang name: https://github.com/flang-compiler/flang/issues/38 Indeed, all the implied smearing of GCC's Fortran (e.g., Flang will be the = first =E2=80=9Cfully open-source=E2=80=9D Fortran compiler; gee, I think Ri= chard Stallman might want to say a few words about that) seems a tad dising= enuous. What really seems to be going on with Flang is that major Fortran = userbases associated with the federal government think that evolving a GPU-= centric Fortran compiler at NVIDIA to generate code for general-purpose-pro= cessor ISAs and be then ported to all OSes is easier than adding immense GP= U support to GCC's Fortran & GCC backend. And IBM & NVIDIA seek hardware r= evenue by selling exascale supercomputers to those userbases. And then NSF= & Naval Research Office grant money starts being emitted to suddenly creat= e a funded NVIDIA-PGI-based Flang community that eclipses other Flang-on-LL= VM communities. If only Ada today had such a pull & push marketing scheme to create its own= river of moneyflow!