From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FORGED_GMAIL_RCVD, FREEMAIL_FROM autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Thread: 103376,93a8020cc980d113 X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII Path: g2news1.google.com!postnews.google.com!y5g2000hsa.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail From: "kevin cline" Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Subject: Re: What is wrong with Ada? Date: 11 Apr 2007 16:05:30 -0700 Organization: http://groups.google.com Message-ID: <1176332730.826176.286450@y5g2000hsa.googlegroups.com> References: <1176150704.130880.248080@l77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com> <461B52A6.20102@obry.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.8.57.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: posting.google.com 1176332731 9312 127.0.0.1 (11 Apr 2007 23:05:31 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 23:05:31 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: User-Agent: G2/1.0 X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8.1.3) Gecko/20070309 Firefox/2.0.0.3,gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe) X-HTTP-Via: 1.1 ics_server.swacorp.com (ICS 2.3.0.0.16) Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Injection-Info: y5g2000hsa.googlegroups.com; posting-host=208.8.57.2; posting-account=Thx6EwwAAAAirqf96i7UdETSL0vfyj5f Xref: g2news1.google.com comp.lang.ada:14919 Date: 2007-04-11T16:05:30-07:00 List-Id: On Apr 10, 11:31 am, "Dmitry A. Kazakov" wrote: > On Tue, 10 Apr 2007 15:59:27 GMT, Jeffrey R. Carter wrote: > > Pascal Obry wrote: > >> Jeffrey R. Carter a =E9crit : > > >>> Nothing is wrong with Ada. It is a language for SW engineers. Since 9= 8% > >>> of SW developers are coders, not SW engineers, 98% prefer languages f= or > >>> coders. > > >> Agreed 100%. Another way to put it, let me ask : What's wrong with > >> developers ? Why do they like unsafe languages ? Why do they like > >> fighting a language all the time ? Why do they like unreadable code ? > >> Why do they like to play with a debugger ? Why do they like to play > >> Sherlock Holmes during hours to look for a bug ? Here are the real > >> questions to me, again nothing wrong with Ada to me ! > > > The answer is: because they're coders, not SW engineers. > > > Let's get circular. > > Let me break the circle: > > It is because SW engineering is not engineering. You are right about that. Other engineering disciplines apply physical laws to the construction of human artifacts. There are no physical laws governing software. Were it not for the limitations of human intellect, we could instantaneously produce correct, optimal machine code to meet any need. Software engineering attempts to define practices for developing reliable software given our limited abilities. It is a social science.