From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FREEMAIL_FROM autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 103376,9ef0b1ff7be6dd43 X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-ArrivalTime: 2003-04-27 13:41:55 PST Path: archiver1.google.com!news1.google.com!newsfeed.stanford.edu!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!diablo.theplanet.net!mephistopheles.news.clara.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!iapetus.uk.clara.net Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 21:41:24 +0100 From: Robin KAY Organization: www.gekkou.co.uk User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030329 X-Accept-Language: en, ja MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Subject: Re: Effect of Gender in Learning Ada - OT References: <1b585154.0304260737.154758a4@posting.google.com> <1051400505.19347.0@iapetus.uk.clara.net> <1051447321.38985.0@iapetus.uk.clara.net> <1b585154.0304271006.561e41ef@posting.google.com> In-Reply-To: <1b585154.0304271006.561e41ef@posting.google.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Complaints-To: abuse@clara.net (please include full headers) X-Trace: 45860863d9c0b50c2f65702077906190b70187c666a50206d43707c23eac4089 NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 21:41:45 +0100 Message-ID: <1051476105.56167.0@iapetus.uk.clara.net> Xref: archiver1.google.com comp.lang.ada:36665 Date: 2003-04-27T21:41:24+01:00 List-Id: Peter Richtmyer wrote: > Robin KAY wrote in message > news:<1051447321.38985.0@iapetus.uk.clara.net>... [snip] >> A single >> sex enviroment of any significant size is indicitive of something having >> gone wrong. > > These topics are very complex... let me just expound a bit more. [snip] What I was trying to say was that assuming that the sexes are roughly on average equal in abilities and given a fair and non-discrimatory hiring process the probability of employees of only a single sex being hired is low. Therefore (IMHO) the disadvantages[1] of a quota system outweigh the advantage of preventing a single sex environment in the few situations where it might occur under a fair and non-discrimatory hiring process. My (evidently badly worded) comment was solely directed at Frode's implication[2] that quotas were needed in order to prevent single sex enivronments. [1] a) reduced quality of employees becuase meeting quotas must be taken into account as well the ability of candidates, and b) belief (either by themselves or by coworkers) that employees who count towards a quota might not have been hired otherwise. [2] Frode said "Have you worked in an all-male environment? The only thing worse is perhaps an all-female environment" in response to "Quotas are a form of discrimination in themselves". > Though I still do not agree that every software group (or any group) > must be proportionate to the applicant pool on the basis of ... Neither do I, though I can see how you might have misread that from my reply to Frode. I was only saying that the make up of the employee pool is likely to resemble that of the applicant pool. If you have you two sexes in the applicant pool but only one sex in the employee pool then it suggests something fishy is going on (e.g. someone's been dumping synthetic estrogens in the water *bad pun* ^_^'). > Robin's last sentence above should (IMHO) have a "possibly" between > "is" and "indicative". So many factors ... I was using 'indicative' in a suggestive sense. > enough for now :-) Yes ^_^'. -- Wishing you good fortune, --Robin Kay-- (komadori)