From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FREEMAIL_FROM autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII X-Google-Thread: 103376,9ef0b1ff7be6dd43 X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-ArrivalTime: 2003-04-27 05:42:13 PST Path: archiver1.google.com!news1.google.com!newsfeed.stanford.edu!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!colt.net!diablo.theplanet.net!mephistopheles.news.clara.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!iapetus.uk.clara.net Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 13:42:02 +0100 From: Robin KAY Organization: www.gekkou.co.uk User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030329 X-Accept-Language: en, ja MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Subject: Re: Effect of Gender in Learning Ada - OT References: <1b585154.0304260737.154758a4@posting.google.com> <1051400505.19347.0@iapetus.uk.clara.net> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Complaints-To: abuse@clara.net (please include full headers) X-Trace: c765651cd6779050b45514f2600238225f6635004297b44781d700723eabd019 NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 13:42:01 +0100 Message-ID: <1051447321.38985.0@iapetus.uk.clara.net> Xref: archiver1.google.com comp.lang.ada:36644 Date: 2003-04-27T13:42:02+01:00 List-Id: Frode Tenneb� wrote: > On Sunday 27 April 2003 01:41 Robin KAY wrote: > >> Frode Tenneb� wrote: >> >>> You would if it meant a greater probability of safer software being >>> installed in the planes you fly or the subways you take, wouldn't >>> you? >> >> But it doesn't mean that at all, rather the opposite. People should be >> hired purely based on their ability to do the job. > > Which, sometimes, may depend on their sex. "hired purely based on their > ability" is not very objective. Also, if two candidates, one male and > one female, had identical "abilities to do the job", _I_ would chose, > independent of quotas, the female candidate purely based on the > not-documented-but-in-my-experience effect of, on average, females > outperform males in the field of engineering. Ability can be measured objectively, at least to some extent. On the other hand, selecting a candidate based (at least in part) on their sex is subjective, influenced by whether you believe that a particular sex is superior or inferior at performing a certain task. In practice it may be necessary to sometimes make such educated gueses, but still I regret its necessity. >> Quotas are a form of discrimination in themselves - a >> legal one perhaps, but dubiously moral and nothing that will make the >> software in planes or underground trains any safer. > > Have you worked in an all-male environment (dislaimer: Robin being a vry > neutral name)? The only thing worse is perhaps an all-female > environment (or so have I been told). :) Even if all those males > possessed better abilities than their female rivals, I would never have > such a composition in my (hypothetical) department. Given that the abilities of an average male and female candidate are roughly equal, then a fair and non-discrimatory hiring process should result in roughly equal numbers of male and female empolyees. A single sex enviroment of any significant size is indicitive of something having gone wrong. -- Wishing you good fortune, --Robin Kay-- (komadori)