From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Received: by 2002:a37:5445:: with SMTP id i66mr29485486qkb.369.1563404396749; Wed, 17 Jul 2019 15:59:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a9d:76ce:: with SMTP id p14mr10748467otl.342.1563404396458; Wed, 17 Jul 2019 15:59:56 -0700 (PDT) Path: eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!feeder.usenetexpress.com!feeder-in1.iad1.usenetexpress.com!border1.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!b26no8840587qtq.0!news-out.google.com!e17ni612qtg.1!nntp.google.com!b26no8840574qtq.0!postnews.google.com!glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2019 15:59:56 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Injection-Info: glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com; posting-host=47.185.223.245; posting-account=zwxLlwoAAAChLBU7oraRzNDnqQYkYbpo NNTP-Posting-Host: 47.185.223.245 References: <01e1fc91-a20e-4b48-a10e-57d3935cd06c@googlegroups.com> User-Agent: G2/1.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <0d4e46d4-c227-4d7a-aafa-44492c6e1d41@googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: Microsoft is considering moving to Rust; potential opportunity for Ada2020 From: Optikos Injection-Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2019 22:59:56 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Xref: reader01.eternal-september.org comp.lang.ada:56881 Date: 2019-07-17T15:59:56-07:00 List-Id: On Wednesday, July 17, 2019 at 1:53:26 PM UTC-5, Maciej Sobczak wrote: > > https://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-to-explore-using-rust >=20 > "The OS maker has been looking for safer C and C++ alternatives for years= ." >=20 > And? What makes the current context so much different, to enable the chan= ge this time? The advent of Xlang begat from the minor miracle that was C++/WinRT 1.0. K= enny Kerr's C++/WinRT was what (in reverse-chronological order) Herb Sutter= 's C++/CX, Herb Sutter's C++/CLI, and Stan Lippman's Managed C++ was trying= to achieve but failed (3 times!) to grasp Kenny Kerr's correct vision for = using C++'s types to model COM's types in the least-obnoxious least-culture= -clash way. https://kennykerr.ca/2018/10/10/xlang > Certainly, now there are even more legacy apps than years ago, thus makin= g the potential change even > more difficult than it was already when they decided not to change. Microsoft's current strategy seems to be to wrap legacy infrastructure via = xlang (nee C++/WinRT now repurposed into being multilingual e.g. Python). = Xlang (which is currently at the heart of C++/WinRT 2.0) could be a key wra= p all-prior-eras-of-software strategy of incrementally converting to more &= more Rust in a Rust-wrap-now-but-fatally-suffocate-C/C++/C#-later strategy= to removing legacy C/C++/C# code over coming years, as it is converted opp= ortunistically from guts within unsafe-Rust-wrapper to pure-Rust guts (perh= aps still with a little obligatory unsafe at the core but Rust Rust Rust al= l the way). And the article does emphasize that Rust is merely under consideration. Th= is Xlang-based surround-&-suffocate-over-time stragegy could be followed by= , say, C#-with-Rustesque-borrow-checker instead. I can hear it now: =E2= =80=98We seriously considered Rust, but in the end we went with something a= little bit different instead.=E2=80=99 > What I find the most interesting in this article, however, is that appare= ntly C# did not make it as a > preferred language in the Microsoft ecosystem. Not even after all the bil= lions thrown into its marketing.=20 Yes, I also was wondering why Microsoft isn't fervently exploring adding a = Rust-esque borrow checker to C#, which would be the natural Microsofty thin= g to do, at least in prior eras of Microsoft.