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Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2014 12:39:33 -0700 (PDT)
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Subject: Re: Ichbiah's Letter
From: David Botton <david@botton.com>
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Xref: news.eternal-september.org comp.lang.ada:22710
Date: 2014-10-24T12:39:33-07:00
List-Id: <comp.lang.ada>

I never saw the original letter, he was exactly on the mark!

<<I was also seeing a risk that the Ada community would not follow if the
intellectual "distance" and the upward incompatibility were too high.>>

Things just keep getting worse at least in terms of intellectual "distance"=
, there is _no_ effort being made by any company right not bring the more g=
eneral aspect of Ada and its benefits to the average programmer. (I'm going=
 to do my part to change that... I like a challenge)

<<I was also hoping that it would be ultimately possible to dress
the new concepts in a simpler, more regular, more attractive, more beautifu=
l
syntax, which could redeem some of the complexity>>

He is my hero! I knew I was not alone in the universe.

<< I have encountered an unusual degree of intolerance to outside contribut=
ions>>

Wow, I thought it was just to me since I tend to make spelling errors, love=
 to be chatty when I write code and am a "street" programmer not an Academi=
c.

<<More than most people, I am driven by aesthetic considerations and the st=
rong belief that only beautiful shape can be correct shape.>>

If I had read this when he was alive I would have made a point to visit him=
, what a shame I never thought to investigate then. He is like my programmi=
ng spirit mentor. I think I understand my affinity to Ada now.

I write my API first then make the code fit it later to try and force the b=
eauty in to it.

I can't stomach the ridiculous thin (even hand done) binding that ignores t=
he language idioms and its beauty. Last night I wanted to puke looking at h=
ow C like the Ada binding to Cairo was. I saw a hundred ways to make it bea=
utiful.

<<coldly logic, ultimately ugly - the engineers had it their way and had Ad=
a
9X become Ada with null>>

I bow to the master. Finally logic, sense. The crowning reality of why Ada =
never manages to get ahead beyond a small Niche. Technically right, but in =
context off the mark.

<<I consider the lack of interfaces to be the most severe
impediment to increasing usage of Ada - witness the absence of a credible
Ada solution for Windows development - and this diversion of resources from
interfaces severely diminishes the chances for Ada's long term success>>

WOW!! If you only knew the ____extreme____ push back I got form inside AdaC=
ore to push for GWindows or other "interfaces" I've come up with to be supp=
orted (so I could continue working on them and get paid to do them)... It i=
s my entire argument for 10 years with key people. I wonder if I am related=
 to this guy!!!

<<Ada struck at the right level:
more complex than Pascal - since it offered facilities that the users neede=
d
- - but not as complex as C++.>>

It is still true thanks to C++ getting even more complex the Ada right arou=
nd 9X as well.

It is _why_ I love Ada and am still sticking it out.

<<So it meant that average programmers could
develop a level of command of its concepts with which they could develop
programs whose structure, actions, and consequences they understood and
mastered - an absolute requirement for reliability.>>

Finally someone who speaks sense and shows why this is more important that =
pre and post conditions! Which is not a bad thing to add but is not what wi=
ll ever make Ada the right choice for most projects.

<<We run the risk of missing the window of opportunity.>>

AND THEY DID! They instead made Ada into a niche language. He is a prophet.

I am hoping Gnoga and future efforts like it by others can still get Ada ba=
ck in the door of the average user project.

I'll do my part! I will try.

<<The words we use influence the concepts>>

So true, I know it is my weak point.

<<The priority for OOP comes from a real market requirement - these feature=
s
will attract new users to Ada>>

Yes 95 really blew it.
Ada OO "looked like" doing OO with Perl ! Still only a bit better.

<<part of the effort to interface Ada with the outside world>>

Yip, still a major issue. Look what it took to make GnatCOM work. I had to =
implement the entire C++ virtual class structures in Ada.

<<the presence in 9X of features that they do not use could be an argument =
for not using the language>>

And the continual slide to make Ada in to SPARK is going to bury it forever=
 in a niche market if we don't get some work to bring Ada to the applicatio=
ns world. Which there is no funding or support to do by what exists now, al=
l volunteer work.

<<In acknowledgment of the fact that it has not been possible for me to mak=
e
an effective contribution, and also in view of my reluctance to be
associated with something whose complexity I disapprove and whose aesthetic=
s I can neither see nor share>>

I am truly wishing I could have sat down with this man and been so honored.

I only wish I had seen this 10 years ago, I would have fought harder and st=
ayed around the Ada community.

Oh well. I think there is another chance and window of opportunity. I'll ju=
st make the fight now.

David Botton