From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Received: by 10.236.34.161 with SMTP id s21mr27552982yha.40.1418012735611; Sun, 07 Dec 2014 20:25:35 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.140.81.169 with SMTP id f38mr614477qgd.3.1418012735583; Sun, 07 Dec 2014 20:25:35 -0800 (PST) Path: eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!mx02.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!news.glorb.com!peer01.iad.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!w8no5376272qac.0!news-out.google.com!n9ni21qai.0!nntp.google.com!w8no5376267qac.0!postnews.google.com!glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2014 20:25:34 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Injection-Info: glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com; posting-host=73.46.72.234; posting-account=yiWntAoAAAC1KqC_shmxJYv07B9l6LNU NNTP-Posting-Host: 73.46.72.234 References: User-Agent: G2/1.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <08b6285b-0089-421f-b6ee-eca3c5eca40f@googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: Gnoga and Wasabee From: David Botton Injection-Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2014 04:25:35 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Received-Bytes: 6251 X-Received-Body-CRC: 2508446216 Xref: news.eternal-september.org comp.lang.ada:23910 Date: 2014-12-07T20:25:34-08:00 List-Id: <> Javascript is not used in the logic only in the insertion and removal of el= ements in to the DOM or to signal the Ada code an event has occurred. << My doubt is, technically, is Javascript a good choice for mission-critic= al applications?>> It is not and one reason to use Gnoga in its place. <> Or more likely the developers do not know another language and didn't expec= t someone would do something foolish like use Node.js in a banking environm= ent like paypal... << The moment I heard about Gnoga, I was excited, I thought it is something= like Qt framework, but clearly I was wrong.>> No your understanding of how Gnoga uses the browser as a rendering engine v= s. using the browser to execute application code is wrong. So keep up the e= xcitement, perhaps go through the tutorials, etc. and get ready for when I = deliver in the next week or two some of the native client setups. Just like Qt uses the underlying X11 server to render the GUI, Gnoga uses t= he browser. Very little difference between the two. =20 <> I think that for complete client side applications where Wasabee can run th= at using Gnoga with Wasabee is an excellent idea. Not in the git yet, but I= already have a more tightly coupled setups with WebKit and Gnoga and post = 1.0 I will have versions that do not even use WebSockets for the underlying= communication layer but direct calls in to WebKit for desktop and mobile a= pps. > Pros: > * We can throw Javascript away, use Ada as its embed language. You already can with Gnoga as is. There is no Javascript programming occurr= ing. However, Gnoga can make use of JavaScript components as plugins and on= e of its great advantages. However the core Gnoga framework does not make u= se of anything but HTML elements. > * No need to care about the difference between browsers, since we only us= e Wasabee. That is already a non-issue from the perspective o Gnoga programmer. The on= ly cross incompatibility that has been found was in popup-windows and that = tutorial will be replaced in the near future as popup windows should not be= used in general outside of launching another website. When Wasabee is mature enough I certainly hope that it would be used in the= capacity you are stating with Gnoga. There are certainly advantages to usi= ng it over WebKit or general browser access. > * Focus on the focus that the project claims to focus, like security, saf= ety, etc.. The current claim is to provide a GUI that works over a large spectrum of d= evices beyond just the desktop and it does that well. By not using JavaScri= pt (contrary to your misunderstanding of Gnoga) and using Ada outside the b= rowser for the entire application logic, including control of the GUI, it i= s possible to write more secure and safe applications. It is, even at this pre-1.0 stage, on par with any other GUI toolkit as far= as allowing the use of Ada for mission critical and secure application dev= elopment. While Gnoga, especially in the current demos, is being used more for remote= web-apps (since at this stage we are trying to demo it over the web to gar= ner interest :), others are already using it for local only GUIs, in the sa= me way Qt or Gtk are used. I have Mac and now Linux native desktop clients = working now as mentioned. > * We can even discard HTML, invent a new markup language, like Mozilla UM= L? [I am not sure this is a good idea, just put it here] I assume you meant XUL. Which interestingly enough at some point I will lik= ely write a Gnoga Plugin to use it if I can find the time. I'd also like to= set up native clients using XULRunner which is has advantages over webkit = but so far seems far more difficult to incorporate in an app. > * Use proof-based programming, by proof-based programming, I mean, you ca= n rely more on Ada Contract than testing. That can be done now using Gnoga. > Cons: > * Wasabee itself is in early stage, so, have a lot of work to do, but at = least we are on the right direction. I agree and look forward to using it as an excellent head for Gnoga apps wh= en ready. > * Not cross-platform until you can run Wasabee on every major OS. When writing mission critical apps you often choose the hardware to match t= he software so this is less of an issue than you may realize. > * Need Wasabee to run. [I don't think this is a disadvantage, you can dis= tribute Wasabee with your application] Of course. David Botton