From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: *** X-Spam-Status: No, score=3.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,INVALID_MSGID, RATWARE_MS_HASH,RATWARE_OUTLOOK_NONAME autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 111d6b,328622178ec8b832 X-Google-Attributes: gid111d6b,public X-Google-Thread: 111d6b,3cfb037adfeca545 X-Google-Attributes: gid111d6b,public X-Google-Thread: 1014db,a03ae7f4e53958e1 X-Google-Attributes: gid1014db,public X-Google-Thread: 1014db,3cfb037adfeca545 X-Google-Attributes: gid1014db,public X-Google-Thread: 10d15b,328622178ec8b832 X-Google-Attributes: gid10d15b,public X-Google-Thread: 10d15b,3cfb037adfeca545 X-Google-Attributes: gid10d15b,public X-Google-Thread: 103376,8775b19e3c68a5dc X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-Thread: 103376,3cfb037adfeca545 X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-Thread: 1094ba,a03ae7f4e53958e1 X-Google-Attributes: gid1094ba,public X-Google-Thread: 1094ba,3cfb037adfeca545 X-Google-Attributes: gid1094ba,public X-Google-Thread: 114809,a03ae7f4e53958e1 X-Google-Attributes: gid114809,public X-Google-Thread: 114809,3cfb037adfeca545 X-Google-Attributes: gid114809,public X-Google-Thread: 109fba,a03ae7f4e53958e1 X-Google-Attributes: gid109fba,public X-Google-Thread: 109fba,3cfb037adfeca545 X-Google-Attributes: gid109fba,public From: "dogmat" Subject: Re: Which language pays most -- C++ vs. Java? Date: 1998/01/28 Message-ID: <01bd2c45$f7ff6f40$7261b693@HP5079Q>#1/1 X-Deja-AN: 320110369 References: <67et6o$dql@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net> <67ktrg$ibk@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net> <883319809snz@genesis.demon.co.uk> <68bt2p$d48@lotho.delphi.com> <34a991f0.2379476@news.diac.com> <68dm0i$brv1@news.fiberlink.net> <01bd198f$4050d960$68c8b5cc@dhite.unicomp.net> <34B71B71.1EFDCAD8@ix.netcom.com> <34B8DC0F.BA0554DB@acm.org> <01bd1ebd$8580b9a0$b2684bc2@xzSys> <34BA520B.534F@mail.state.wi.us> <6alu5l$onm$1@owl.slip.net> <01bd2c2a$69b107a0$9f684bc2@xzSys> Organization: Richard MacDonald Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.misc,comp.lang.c,comp.lang.c++,comp.lang.fortran,comp.lang.cobol,comp.lang.smalltalk,comp.lang.ada Date: 1998-01-28T00:00:00+00:00 List-Id: > > > It's really very simple. Anyone smart enough and focused enough to > earn a > > > PhD in *any* hard-core technical subject can learn programming and > > > computer science on the job, and is therefore a good bet. > > > > Some of the worst code and UI design I've ever seen came from a guy > > with *3* PhDs. I can only guess that people with a tolerance for the > > BS of academia also have a tolerance for BS/ugly code and designs. Both points probably true and not inconsistent. Programming is a special subject and a PhD doth not a programmer make. > I knew another guy, PhD in mathematics. It seemed strange to me that he > ended as a programmer. But it really struck me when I saw some of his progs > : you ever unlocked a record that doesn't exist? > > By the way, my thoughts, based on experience (and I have no PhD) : Having 3 > PhD's warrants that one can say out loud (and probably proudly) that he has > 3 PhD's. Furthermore, directives who care more for appearance than for > substance tend to preffer guys with, at least, a PhD, since they fit > fantastically in their corporative picture. Fortunately there's always > still enough no-PhDed-people around to get the work done. Well, since we're taking off our gloves, I'll throw back the insult (I have a PhD): In engineering, if the programmer writes the application, it'll look great and be absolutely useless. If the engineer writes the application, it'll look like hell, both internally and externally, but it will actually be useful. Aside: Its comes down to requirements analysis, you might say. Sorry, but get more than 3 engineers in a room, and they'll argue forever. You'll never get a engineering software requirements package that is sufficiently precise for a programmer's needs. Blame the engineers for their lack-of-rigor? Yes, but that's the nature of the domain beast. Its easier for an engineer to write the program himself or train the programmer to be an engineer than it is to write out the specifications "in full". Perhaps it comes down to training. I doubt many programmers would be willing to go back and spend 4+ years learning the intricacies of engineering principles (most haven't even a clue about numerical methods). This cannot be picked up on the job. But anyone with an engineering background can learn to program (and does, e.g., one semester of Fortran). The problem is that many of them think they're good at it. Or maybe its just caring to read a new book every now and then. I'm an engineer self-taught in OO, and I can run rings around most programmers. (Although, not of course someone like yourself who follows these newsgroups. If you are reading this, you are different from the majority of dead-fish.) P.S. This is too depressing to be a boast.