From: "Vassili Bykov" <vbykov@cam.org>
Subject: Re: Exceptions as objects (was Re: What is wrong with OO ?)
Date: 1997/02/10
Date: 1997-02-10T00:00:00+00:00 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <01bc1713$930ab060$752d54c7@vbykov.hip.cam.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: E59AsK.5LC@world.std.com
Robert A Duff <bobduff@world.std.com> wrote in article
<E59AsK.5LC@world.std.com>...
> Control constructs *are* part of the standard library in Smalltalk. And
> it's an elegant way to do things. I'm not sure what you mean by "*in
> principle*" in this case.
> >(Unless you take Lisp or Scheme and consider macros as part of the
> >library--which, strictly speaking, they are not).
> No, they're not macros, they're "normal" messages/methods (that is,
> procedure calls), with "blocks" as parameters. (I'm not sure why macros
> are considered out of bounds here, but in any case, macros aren't needed
> in this case.)
Sorry, but the post I replied to discussed Ada and C. Your Smalltalk points
are correct but Smalltalk is unique (again :-). Unlike most other
"mainstream" languages it provides delayed evaluation ("blocks")--something
without which you *cannot* build control constructs for languages with
applicative-order evaluation, while unlike Scheme and CL's closures the
syntax of blocks is extremely brief. This is why you can build control
constructs as functions without the need for syntactic sugar for usability.
If you disagree with the first statement, try to write "while as a
function" in C or similar language. If you disagree with the second,
imagine a bare-bones Scheme-like system with only "lambda", "define" and
"if": it is *all* you need to have any control construct and write any
program, but it will be unreadable without syntactic abstraction a macro
system gives. (Macros are out of bounds because they extend the compiler,
not the program.)
--Vassili
next prev parent reply other threads:[~1997-02-10 0:00 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 260+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
1997-01-01 0:00 What is wrong with OO ? Ell
1997-01-01 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-01-02 0:00 ` Robert C. Martin
1997-01-03 0:00 ` Eirik Mangseth
1997-01-03 0:00 ` What is wrong with OO O X g Greg Comeau
1997-01-04 0:00 ` OO, C++, and something much better! John (Max) Skaller
1997-01-04 0:00 ` vlad
1997-01-05 0:00 ` Mike Anderson
1997-01-06 0:00 ` Chris Brand
1997-01-06 0:00 ` Stanley Allen
1997-01-09 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-01-08 0:00 ` Robert I. Eachus
1997-01-09 0:00 ` Bertrand Meyer
1997-01-27 0:00 ` Richard Riehle
1997-01-10 0:00 ` Robb Nebbe
1997-01-10 0:00 ` Robert I. Eachus
1997-01-03 0:00 ` What is wrong with OO ? Matt Austern
1997-01-03 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-01-04 0:00 ` Valerie Torres
1997-01-06 0:00 ` Bart Samwel
1997-01-08 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-09 0:00 ` William Clodius
1997-01-09 0:00 ` Bertrand Meyer
1997-01-09 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-01-09 0:00 ` Jay Martin
1997-01-09 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-10 0:00 ` Jay Martin
1997-01-12 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-15 0:00 ` Laurent Gasser
1997-01-15 0:00 ` Jonas Nygren
1997-01-17 0:00 ` Tom Bushell
1997-01-17 0:00 ` Eirik Mangseth
1997-01-17 0:00 ` Michael Malak
1997-01-17 0:00 ` Kent Budge, sandia,
1997-01-15 0:00 ` Jay Martin
1997-01-10 0:00 ` Fergus Henderson
1997-01-10 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-12 0:00 ` Fergus Henderson
1997-01-12 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-10 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-01-10 0:00 ` Jay Martin
1997-01-10 0:00 ` Joe Buck
1997-01-11 0:00 ` Jay Martin
1997-01-12 0:00 ` Slavik Zorin
1997-01-09 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-10 0:00 ` Fergus Henderson
1997-01-10 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-12 0:00 ` Fergus Henderson
1997-01-11 0:00 ` Piercarlo Grandi
1997-01-12 0:00 ` Thierry Goubier
1997-01-14 0:00 ` Piercarlo Grandi
1997-01-14 0:00 ` Vos nom et pr�nom
1997-01-16 0:00 ` Mark Woodruff
1997-01-17 0:00 ` Piercarlo Grandi
1997-01-09 0:00 ` Simon Willcocks
1997-01-09 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-09 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-01-09 0:00 ` Fergus Henderson
1997-01-09 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-10 0:00 ` Fergus Henderson
1997-01-10 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-09 0:00 ` Richie Bielak
1997-01-10 0:00 ` Fergus Henderson
1997-01-10 0:00 ` Bart Samwel
1997-01-10 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-10 0:00 ` Michael Malak
1997-01-10 0:00 ` Bart Samwel
1997-01-12 0:00 ` Fergus Henderson
1997-01-09 0:00 ` Bjarne Stroustrup
1997-01-11 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-15 0:00 ` Bjarne Stroustrup
1997-01-19 0:00 ` Jay Martin
1997-01-27 0:00 ` Robert C. Martin
1997-01-30 0:00 ` Damon Feldman
1997-01-20 0:00 ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1997-01-21 0:00 ` John W. Sarkela
1997-01-23 0:00 ` Piercarlo Grandi
1997-01-23 0:00 ` Bertrand Meyer
1997-01-24 0:00 ` language marketing question, was " Tom Moran
[not found] ` <5cpdh8$mau@news.csus.edu>
[not found] ` <5cs3un$14b4@uni.library.ucla.edu>
[not found] ` <rmartin-3101971753460001@pool15-027.wwa.com>
[not found] ` <5cu5ig$10fk@uni.library.ucla.edu>
[not found] ` <5dao0p$gri@decius.ultra.net>
[not found] ` <yf3n2th488t.fsf@sabi.demon.co.uk>
1997-02-11 0:00 ` Worse is better, was: Language marketing question Bob Haugen
1997-02-11 0:00 ` Donald M. MacQueen
1997-02-11 0:00 ` Lee Willis
[not found] ` <yf3rait49b9.fsf@sabi.demon.co.uk>
[not found] ` <01bc183b$fd091820$1544db03@gecmf-pc-eddjab.gecmf.capital.ge.com>
1997-02-13 0:00 ` language marketing question, was Re: What is wrong with OO ? Robert Dewar
1997-01-25 0:00 ` Damon Feldman
1997-01-26 0:00 ` Sean Case
1997-01-26 0:00 ` William Grosso
1997-01-28 0:00 ` Paul Keister
1997-01-28 0:00 ` Dann Corbit
1997-01-12 0:00 ` Fergus Henderson
1997-01-13 0:00 ` Bart Samwel
1997-01-12 0:00 ` Matt Telles
1997-01-15 0:00 ` Bjarne Stroustrup
1997-01-19 0:00 ` Matthew Heaney
1997-01-14 0:00 ` Vos nom et pr�nom
1997-01-16 0:00 ` Patrick Doyle
1997-01-16 0:00 ` Risto Lankinen
1997-01-16 0:00 ` Patrick Doyle
1997-01-16 0:00 ` Risto Lankinen
1997-01-18 0:00 ` Robert C. Martin
[not found] ` <01bc0269$3fd55b20$ca61e426@DCorbit.solutionsiq.com>
1997-02-10 0:00 ` richard
1997-02-10 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-02-10 0:00 ` Nick Leaton
[not found] ` <3303A993.759E@pratique.fr>
1997-02-21 0:00 ` Nick Leaton
1997-02-21 0:00 ` Nick Leaton
1997-02-22 0:00 ` Fergus Henderson
1997-01-20 0:00 ` David Emery
[not found] ` <dewar.852772995@mer <dewar.852833957@merv>
1997-01-10 0:00 ` Simon Willcocks
1997-01-10 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-10 0:00 ` Marky Mark
1997-01-10 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-12 0:00 ` Fergus Henderson
1997-01-12 0:00 ` Josh Stern
1997-01-12 0:00 ` Martin ELLISON
1997-01-14 0:00 ` Piercarlo Grandi
1997-01-17 0:00 ` Lawrence G. Mayka
1997-01-19 0:00 ` Piercarlo Grandi
1997-01-19 0:00 ` Exceptions as objects (was Re: What is wrong with OO ?) Patrick Doyle
1997-01-25 0:00 ` Piercarlo Grandi
1997-01-25 0:00 ` Ronald E Jeffries
1997-01-25 0:00 ` Robert A Duff
1997-01-28 0:00 ` Piercarlo Grandi
1997-01-29 0:00 ` John W. Sarkela
[not found] ` <yf33evav882.fsf@sabi.demon.co.uk>
[not found] ` <32FA58AD.2D96@enfish.com>
1997-02-12 0:00 ` Piercarlo Grandi
1997-01-29 0:00 ` Robert A Duff
1997-01-30 0:00 ` Lawrence G. Mayka
1997-01-30 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-29 0:00 ` John (Max) Skaller
1997-01-25 0:00 ` Bryan Dollery
1997-01-28 0:00 ` Piercarlo Grandi
1997-01-25 0:00 ` Paul Kyzivat
1997-01-25 0:00 ` Robert A Duff
1997-01-25 0:00 ` Robert A Duff
1997-01-28 0:00 ` Piercarlo Grandi
1997-01-28 0:00 ` Piercarlo Grandi
[not found] ` <5cu43v$jkn@nntpa.cb.lucent.com>
[not found] ` <yf3ybd14qn4.fsf@sabi.demon.co.uk>
[not found] ` <5de797$1ksa@uni.library.ucla.edu>
1997-02-07 0:00 ` Piercarlo Grandi
1997-02-08 0:00 ` Jay Martin
[not found] ` <5d93d3$nhs$1@goanna.cs.rmit.edu.au>
1997-02-07 0:00 ` Robert A Duff
[not found] ` <5dds5b$gcs@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU>
[not found] ` <01bc14ab$3ce476e0$752d54c7@vbykov.hip.cam.org>
[not found] ` <5def36$rjd@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU>
1997-02-07 0:00 ` Vassili Bykov
1997-02-07 0:00 ` Bill Gooch
1997-02-07 0:00 ` Vassili Bykov
1997-02-08 0:00 ` Fergus Henderson
1997-02-08 0:00 ` Piercarlo Grandi
1997-02-08 0:00 ` Piercarlo Grandi
1997-02-11 0:00 ` Vassili Bykov
1997-02-07 0:00 ` Robert A Duff
1997-02-10 0:00 ` Vassili Bykov [this message]
1997-02-07 0:00 ` Patrick Doyle
[not found] ` <5de57h$dm3$1@goanna.cs.rmit.edu.au>
1997-02-09 0:00 ` Fergus Henderson
1997-01-04 0:00 ` OO, C++, and something much better! Pieter Schoenmakers
1997-01-06 0:00 ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen FOU.TD/DELAB
1997-01-06 0:00 ` Michael F Brenner
1997-01-06 0:00 ` Tucker Taft
1997-01-07 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-07 0:00 ` Ada Generics (was Re: OO, C++, and something much better!) Bob Gilbert
1997-01-07 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-08 0:00 ` OO, C++, and something much better! Robert Dewar
1997-01-07 0:00 ` Jay Martin
1997-01-08 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-01-08 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-08 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-09 0:00 ` Ted Dennison
1997-01-07 0:00 ` Andrew Koenig
1997-01-10 0:00 ` Norman H. Cohen
1997-01-12 0:00 ` Richard Riehle
1997-01-07 0:00 ` What is wrong with OO ? Jon S Anthony
1997-01-07 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-01-11 0:00 ` Bjarne Stroustrup
1997-01-21 0:00 ` rharlos*cybercomm.net
1997-02-10 0:00 ` richard
1997-02-10 0:00 ` Charles A. Jolley
1997-02-11 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-02-12 0:00 ` C++ Class Loc Minh Phan Van
1997-02-12 0:00 ` Jason Shankel
1997-02-12 0:00 ` Keith P. Boruff
1997-02-12 0:00 ` Vlastimil Adamovsky
1997-03-03 0:00 ` C++ Class [ not a good answer ] Luis Espinal
1997-03-06 0:00 ` Tom Plunket
1997-02-12 0:00 ` C++ Class Kent Tong
1997-02-12 0:00 ` Paul Kenneth Egell-Johnsen
1997-02-12 0:00 ` Aaron J Margosis
1997-02-12 0:00 ` John Kapson [C]
1997-02-12 0:00 ` Kevin J. Hopps
1997-02-12 0:00 ` William Ying
1997-02-12 0:00 ` Ron Smith
1997-02-13 0:00 ` Lee, Shih Hao
1997-02-17 0:00 ` What is wrong with OO ? Sam Inala
1997-02-17 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-02-15 0:00 ` Piercarlo Grandi
1997-02-11 0:00 ` Vlastimil Adamovsky
1997-01-07 0:00 ` OO, C++, and something much better! Stanley Allen
1997-01-07 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-07 0:00 ` Bertrand Meyer
1997-01-08 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-01-08 0:00 ` Matthew Heaney
1997-01-10 0:00 ` Keith Thompson
1997-01-10 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-10 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-15 0:00 ` Richard Kenner
1997-01-15 0:00 ` Fergus Henderson
1997-01-20 0:00 ` Andrew Koenig
1997-01-25 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-15 0:00 ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen FOU.TD/DELAB
1997-01-08 0:00 ` Kohler Markus
1997-01-08 0:00 ` David Emery
1997-01-09 0:00 ` Don Harrison
1997-01-10 0:00 ` Marky Mark
1997-01-14 0:00 ` Don Harrison
1997-01-08 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-01-08 0:00 ` Mark A Biggar
1997-01-09 0:00 ` Don Harrison
1997-01-10 0:00 ` Roy Phillips
1997-01-27 0:00 ` Nick Leaton
1997-01-28 0:00 ` matthew mclellan
1997-01-09 0:00 ` Don Harrison
1997-01-09 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-10 0:00 ` Bart Samwel
1997-01-10 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-10 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-01-10 0:00 ` Norman H. Cohen
1997-01-13 0:00 ` Don Harrison
1997-01-13 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-01-13 0:00 ` Norman H. Cohen
1997-01-13 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-15 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-01-17 0:00 ` Keith Thompson
1997-01-16 0:00 ` Keith Thompson
1997-01-16 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-01-14 0:00 ` Don Harrison
1997-01-14 0:00 ` Michael F Brenner
1997-01-13 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-14 0:00 ` Don Harrison
1997-01-10 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-01-13 0:00 ` Don Harrison
1997-01-13 0:00 ` Don Harrison
1997-01-14 0:00 ` Jeff Carter
1997-01-15 0:00 ` Don Harrison
1997-01-17 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-01-17 0:00 ` Norman H. Cohen
1997-01-18 0:00 ` Patrick Doyle
1997-01-20 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-01-13 0:00 ` Robert I. Eachus
1997-01-15 0:00 ` Don Harrison
1997-01-10 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-01-10 0:00 ` What is wrong with OO ? Robert I. Eachus
1997-01-12 0:00 ` Piercarlo Grandi
1997-01-10 0:00 ` Pieter Schoenmakers
1997-01-12 0:00 ` Fergus Henderson
1997-01-10 0:00 ` OO, C++, and something much better! Matt Austern
1997-01-12 0:00 ` What is wrong with OO ? Chris Morgan
1997-01-12 0:00 ` Chris Morgan
1997-01-11 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-13 0:00 ` Pieter Schoenmakers
1997-01-13 0:00 ` Fergus Henderson
1997-01-13 0:00 ` ak
1997-01-13 0:00 ` Chris Morgan
1997-01-23 0:00 ` Chris Bitmead
1997-01-23 0:00 ` Ulrich Windl
1997-01-23 0:00 ` Bertrand Meyer
1997-01-26 0:00 ` Piercarlo Grandi
1997-01-08 0:00 ` Richard A. O'Keefe
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