From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: *** X-Spam-Status: No, score=3.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,INVALID_MSGID, RATWARE_MS_HASH,RATWARE_OUTLOOK_NONAME autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: fc89c,97188312486d4578 X-Google-Attributes: gidfc89c,public X-Google-Thread: 103376,97188312486d4578 X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-Thread: 1014db,6154de2e240de72a X-Google-Attributes: gid1014db,public X-Google-Thread: 109fba,baaf5f793d03d420 X-Google-Attributes: gid109fba,public X-Google-Thread: 10db24,4cf070091283b555,start X-Google-Attributes: gid10db24,public From: "Tim Behrendsen" Subject: Re: What's the best language to learn? [was Re: Should I learn C or Pascal?] Date: 1996/08/13 Message-ID: <01bb8950$2c8dcc60$87ee6fce@timpent.airshields.com>#1/1 X-Deja-AN: 174041488 references: <4u7hi6$s2b@nntp.seflin.lib.fl.us> <4uo74j$95p@ns.broadvision.com> content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 organization: A-SIS mime-version: 1.0 newsgroups: comp.edu,comp.lang.ada,comp.lang.c,comp.lang.c++,comp.unix.programmer Date: 1996-08-13T00:00:00+00:00 List-Id: Darin Johnson wrote in article ... > > A binary sort, also known as quicksort, or Hoare's sort is covered extensively > > in Knuth's volume three (from 1971) and in every undergraduate data structure > > and algorithm course in the world;)...you would expect anyone with a CS degree > > to be familiar with it. > > Actually, I learned it freshman year, but didn't understand it. > Entire new concepts of programming were still trying to find niches in > my head, leaving no room for understanding what was going on with > quicksort. Most later classes assumed I already knew it. I did get > clued into it later on, but I think many of my classmates kept the > "quicksort is the fastest sort" categorization without really > understanding it. Too many people fall asleep in algorithms class > (then bitch about the waste of time later). [Sorry Darin to use you as the example of what I'm talking about on a different thread! Don't take this personally! :) ] This is a perfect example of how students are being graduated without fully understanding what programming is all about. The phrasing is perfect: "I learned it..., but didn't understand it." *This is how it happens!* I interpret this to mean that he was struggling with all the abstractions while trying to master the concept of "thinking like a programmer". Meanwhile, they are packing algorithm after algorithm into his head when he is not prepared to understand what they are packing. Now, what if they had started ol' Darin off with some very simple concepts in assembly, really showed him the procedural nature of the computer, data flow, data transformations, etc., and *then* moved on to algorithms such as Quicksort. You just plain can't fail to understand what's going on! -- Tim Behrendsen (tim@airshields.com)