From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.1 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FREEMAIL_FROM, PP_MIME_FAKE_ASCII_TEXT autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Thread: 103376,c5f189513e1f5f8a X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,domainid0,public,usenet X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII Path: g2news2.google.com!news1.google.com!Xl.tags.giganews.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!local01.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.earthlink.com!news.earthlink.com.POSTED!not-for-mail NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 16:31:19 -0500 From: "Brian" Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada References: <01d59695$0$20632$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> <1YudnblPCIBgtlrUnZ2dnUVZ_tbinZ2d@earthlink.com> <87r60oip8a.fsf@nbi.dk> <7NadnVUQy9Nzm1XUnZ2dnUVZ_geWnZ2d@earthlink.com> Subject: Re: Ada as a first language Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 14:30:54 -0800 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Original Message-ID: <-bmdnWXWoJ-6zFTUnZ2dnUVZ_oiWnZ2d@earthlink.com> X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.92.212.9 X-Trace: sv3-nR9UZQjG2pGXfLANF7iHXQT7zoA3+vx53275/1gm6NEjEeFVZ9843t5/8kt2ncJZNHgEhJkI/7KBNIQ!X1njCcLW4rhpyr1a7Rs2aKLGL50ju0TWsI3NagjH89dwssDRnsIYy/Emsbk5qyaL5ythsL1kTqHM!S46FVHHf+w3uBvACMPChv/9gUgPnkvRf X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.3.39 Xref: g2news2.google.com comp.lang.ada:5240 Date: 2009-03-24T14:30:54-08:00 List-Id: "Jacob Sparre Andersen" wrote > I _have_ considered the scope, size and complexity of the problem > space Chris was kind enough to describe. Given that information, my > experience with teaching people software engineering, my own > programming experience, and my experience with hobbyist scale > robotics, I stand firmly by my disagreement with your advice. You could_not_have_considered the scope, size and complexity of the problem space that Chris was kind enough to describe, as he was not kind enough to describe them at that time. >> So, you truly believe that Ada is a better language, no matter what >> he is trying to achieve? > > I never claimed that. Yet, with no data of any kind other than his words ("robotics embedded systems"), you chose to disagree and recommend Ada over other languages without consideration of any requirements, whatsoever. > >> For any size project? > > I expect that the benefits grow with project size. But given the > constraints I considered, yes! What constraints did you consider? Again, the only words he used to describe his project were those mentioned above, and he did mention that he did not have programming experience. The project could have been anything from a garage door to R2-D2. > >> It isn't the perfect tool for every situation, embedded or not. And >> we should stop saying that it is, the language and it's proponents >> are losing credibility. > > I never claimed that Ada is the perfect tool for every situation. > Stop #�%&!" putting words in my mouth! Again, you disagreed and recommended Ada for a project that you knew nothing about, other than it is an embedded robotic project. It could have been anything, from 5 to 5,000,000 SLOC. You recommended it over any other language, with nearly no data, for a user who admitted to having no experience. I have not put words in your mouth. I've tried to carefully read your disagreements, and weigh their possible effect on a new coder. His experience in the next few months is likely to color his view of programming for a long time. If he has a negative experience because he was enticed to use Ada when it wasn't appropriate to his experience level, and for the project he has selected, then he may go around saying bad things about Ada. That has happened with many companies and individuals before, and the Ada world continues to be impacted. In that light, I've tried to recommend tools to him that will allow him to achieve success earlier, and easier. Let him move into Ada when it's appropriate, and he is more likely to have a more experience overall. That would be best for him, and for us. Brian Salter